Why Don't Some NG soldiers not salute while passing under or near the Flag?

2014-02-28T15:40:43-05:00

I have noticed that some National Guard soldiers, regardless of rank pass the flag pole and the flag up and not render a salute. How does one address this issue. Have gone to the CoC and it is not addressed. don't want to go to the CSM and go over the CoC.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2014 3:42 PM

2014-02-28T15:42:04-05:00

If the current CoC doesn't address it then go over their heads. That's what its there for. Best to use CSM channels though.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Feb 28 at 2014 3:53 PM

2014-02-28T15:53:49-05:00

In almost every case, these Soldiers don't know that they should salute when PASSING the flag...not just when it passes them.

Put together an NCOPD class for your unit on the proper etiquette for the American flag in and out of uniform.

For our Army folks, IAW FM 7-21.13, paragraph 4-23:

Response by LTC Joseph Gross made Mar 1 at 2014 7:06 PM

2014-03-01T19:06:23-05:00

I think you might be misinterpreting the regulation. A flag is not the same as the colors. I would have to search for this but look for definitions and see if you find this.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 7 at 2014 12:14 AM

2014-03-07T00:14:18-05:00

Not sure about Army or National Guard regulations, but when Colors is sounded, this is when all turn to towards the flag pole or sound of colors being played and render an appropriate salute. This would mean the colors are "posted". Likewise, in the evening, taps being played would be the time for everyone to stop and render a salute for the colors being taken down at sunset. They are not being disrespectful, it just seems that they are more brushed up on the appropriate times to render a salute to the Colors.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2014 11:59 AM

2014-03-28T11:59:39-04:00

There is a huge difference between walking past a flag on a pole (the colors, posted at BLDG 1 in a garrison) and colors that are being presented. Do not confuse the two.<br><br>On a military installation ALL soldiers will render the proper honors during "Reveille" in the morning and "Retreat" and "To The Colors" in the late afternoon. The specific times of which are determined by the Post Commander IAW AR 600-25.<br><br>When you are passing or being passed by colors that are being presented,
paraded, or displayed, you salute when the colors are six paces from you.
The specifics can be found in TC 3-21.5.<br><br>Let me illustrate: during a division change of command ceremony, you will find that the US flag is flying high at BLDG 1, and the Colors are marched in with the Color Guard and posted on the staging behind the command staff. You'll note that the units did not salute the flag at BLDG 1 as they marched past it to get into position on the parade field, but the entire division saluted the colors as they were brought in by the Color Guard.<br><br>

Response by CSM Mike Maynard made Apr 19 at 2014 5:58 PM

2014-04-19T17:58:16-04:00

A lot of folks on here mention that there is a difference between a "flag" and a "color", but no one actually defines what that difference is.<div><br></div><div>The difference is that a "color" has a gold fringe around the border - that's what makes it a color.</div><div><br></div><div>And that is why we don't salute - it is a "flag" atop a flag pole, not a color.</div>

Response by SFC Gary Fox made Apr 20 at 2014 3:11 PM

2014-04-20T15:11:54-04:00

SGT Sergeant, you do not salute the flag when it's on the flag pole. Authorized flagpoles are 50, 60, and 75 feet. Think of it this way, when the flag is 50-60 feet in the air, you cannot see it while walking with your eyes straight ahead. You do not salute what you do not see. If you salute 6 paces either side of the flag pole, you are not saluting the flag, but the pole.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2014 8:26 PM

2014-04-21T20:26:34-04:00

Ok let me try to make this Barney proof.

When soldiers are outdoors and being passed by uncased "colors" (American flag with 1 1/2 inch gold fringe on 3 sides) they must salute.

If they are passing uncased colors they salute within 6 paces and hold for 6 paces past.

You DO NOT salute the flag on the main installation flag pole unless it is being lowered or raised.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2014 2:19 PM

2014-08-23T14:19:52-04:00

Interesting difference between the branches. In the Coast Guard, like the Navy, we salute when the national ensign is raised at 0800 and lowered at sunset. Additionally, we salute when crossing the brow of a ship. We don't salute the national ensign while passing it on shore though.

Seems like it would make more sense if we were all operating under the same rules, in case we were ever on the base of another branch.

Response by Cpl Murray Estes made Sep 11 at 2014 2:52 PM

2014-09-11T14:52:42-04:00

The regulation for this is DoD wide, if I'm not mistaken, per the "Flag Code" (I can't remember the precise reference.). In the situation you are referring to, the only times a uniformed service member salutes is during "morning colors" (the raising of the flag, typically 0800 local) and "evening colors" (the retreat of the flag), typically at sunset. All personnel on station at these times, uniformed or not, stop all activity until the (if any) accompanying music ceases. At any other time, a salute is not rendered.

Response by SPC Matthew Birkinbine made Sep 11 at 2014 11:32 PM

2014-09-11T23:32:44-04:00

I may be wrong as a hmmwv low on blinker fluid, but until someone corrected me (and that within the last year) I always saluted the "flag". I call it a personal pride in my nation and those who've fought and died albeit under a "color", but a similar form of symbol of our nation, in my eyes (wrong, most likely, no less). In the words of Johnny Cash "on second thought, I DO like to brag, because I'm mighty PROUD of that 'Ragged Old Flag'!"; but for all intents and purposes, if anybody asks, because it's a "flag", not a "Color", I don't salute the flag at the top of a pole that nobody can see because it's "up so high" (unless I see that no one is watching).

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2015 7:39 PM

2015-02-06T19:39:50-05:00

I found this confusing when I came from Marines to the Army Reserve.... In the Marines you "salute all officers, flags and colors not cased.." And the Army it is just the colors and when the flag is being raised and lowered... My philosophy when in doubt salute... I would rather have someone correct me for showing respect than not... Also it is just habit for me...

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2017 11:36 AM

2017-03-08T11:36:59-05:00

Unfortunately SGT, it's not just the NG. There are a great many on Active Duty that do not render proper courtesy to the flag as well.

When I do it, I get a lot of weird looks, and have more than once gotten yelled at for doing it. There have even been several Drill Sergeants call out to me "What the hell are you saluting for, weirdo?"

The simple fact is this; proper customs and courtesies in regards to our National Colors simply aren't being taught anymore. The Flag Code, and the Customs and Courtesies log are not being instructed upon as they should be, and most people simply don't know that you are supposed to render a proper military hand salute when passing the Colors (six paces fore, and six aft).