SSG Private RallyPoint Member 3485 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>In my 10 years I've taken a number of PT tests and have come to see that if you're not a 270 or better soldier then you're not good enough. Why is it that we do that to each other? Not everyone is going to be a 270-300 PT master. Its as if a black cloud floats over you. case in point, I had major surgery in Jan of 2010. Of course I was on con leave and on profile to recover. When it came time to take a PT test some months later I scored in the 180 neighborhood (Im normally a 270ish) which is passing, but I got looked at like I was a dirt bag. And to add insult to injury I was an E-5 so I was looked at as a lackluster NCO. Can someone explain to me why is this happening in today's army? 2013-11-05T10:14:59-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 3485

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>In my 10 years I've taken a number of PT tests and have come to see that if you're not a 270 or better soldier then you're not good enough. Why is it that we do that to each other? Not everyone is going to be a 270-300 PT master. Its as if a black cloud floats over you. case in point, I had major surgery in Jan of 2010. Of course I was on con leave and on profile to recover. When it came time to take a PT test some months later I scored in the 180 neighborhood (Im normally a 270ish) which is passing, but I got looked at like I was a dirt bag. And to add insult to injury I was an E-5 so I was looked at as a lackluster NCO. Can someone explain to me why is this happening in today's army?

2013-11-05T10:14:59-05:00 2013-11-05T10:14:59-05:00 CMC Robert Young 3496

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>SGT, it's not just big army. Depending on your assignment or unit, mother Coast Guard can be the same way.

2013-11-05T10:50:52-05:00 2013-11-05T10:50:52-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 3500

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>My feeling has always been that the Army set the standard at 180 points, 60 in each event. Everyone should meet that standard. If it happens that you are more physically gifted than your peers and can score much higher, that&#39;s great. The real issue I have is that so many people equate a high PT score with good leadership skills or job competence. I&#39;ll take someone with a 200 PT score that knows how to do their job and follow instruction over a 300 PT score that knows nothing about their job.

2013-11-05T10:56:14-05:00 2013-11-05T10:56:14-05:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 3506

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Victor,<br>It's been going on when I was in nearly 20 years ago.<br>It has to do with the Army culture- It is more a Physical (and therefore superficial) Service than it is an Intellectual Service. It doesn't help that the Army did away with the MOSQT (MOS Qualifying Test) or SQT (Skills Qualifying Test). It doesn't matter if you can perform flawlessly in your MOS, get Expert at the range, get decent NCOER's and pass your APFT (and tape test), but if you can max out your AFPT, you're considered "gold" by your chain of command. Most units tend to have this misconception that if an NCO is a PT Stud (or Studdette), then he or she is an excellent NCO. It goes back to the superficiality that's ingrained in the Army culture. <br>

2013-11-05T11:21:39-05:00 2013-11-05T11:21:39-05:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 3508

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>It's a simple concept, meeting the bare requirements speaks of a lack of drive and motivation, as well as a lack of personal pride, things that all servicemembers should be overflowing with. The slogan used to be "Be All You Can Be" and things would be different if it still were. It isn't a valid excuse to say something along the lines of "well, we aren't all cut out for 300", especially when you take into consideration things like the fact that the scores have gone way down over the years, meaning, for example, the max raw scores for males now is what used to be the max requirement for females. So what does that tell us? It tells us that so much of it is not only psychological, but also about how much each individual commits.<br>We already know that health, fitness, and strength are requirements in this profession so that we are better able to meet the demands of war, even if war has changed, it says a lot about a person when he or she doesn't make the most of his or herself, mentally, and physically.

2013-11-05T11:24:40-05:00 2013-11-05T11:24:40-05:00 SFC Michael Hasbun 3509

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Physical fitness is much simpler to quantify than intelligence, and is much more easily improved.

2013-11-05T11:27:12-05:00 2013-11-05T11:27:12-05:00 CPT Private RallyPoint Member 3531

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>There is definitely too much weight placed on performance on the APFT (particularly since it only measures a relatively limited snapshot of overall fitness).  That being said, there are also far too many soldiers who are overweight and/or who underperform physically.  Until that is no longer an issue, I don't see any changes coming down the pipe.

2013-11-05T12:23:00-05:00 2013-11-05T12:23:00-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 3536

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>It all depends on the unit you're assigned to.  Many units placed a large emphasis on Physical Fitness and strives to have soldiers in the best shape.  However, you will also see there are some units who lack in that area resulting in poor physical fitness abilities and appearances.  I have seen and heard this many times in my old unit.  Majority of the time this type of thinking I have seen revolved around the combat arms platoons.

2013-11-05T12:41:52-05:00 2013-11-05T12:41:52-05:00 SFC James Baber 27107

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div><p>SGT J,</p><p><br></p><p>It is nothing new this has been an issue for generations, while the standard is 180 (60 ea.), if you ever score in that range that you are substandard, while we know this to be wrong it is how most units and leadership set the bar for their Soldiers, especially their NCOs. It is something that many to include myself dealt with over the years, I have had many surgeries over the years from combat injuries and/or LOD injuries, I was normally a 270 range PFT Soldier, but many times had to drop down to the 180-200 range during recovery times from many surgeries. I was looked upon by many as slacking or a marginal NCO, but the ones that really counted such as CSM/BC who new me and what I had done before and the injury I suffered new better and didn't allow it to phase them, I was always told to just get healed and build back to what they knew I could do.</p><p><br></p><p>I would just ignore the naysayers and build back up and get to where you know you can be.</p>

2013-12-25T00:46:53-05:00 2013-12-25T00:46:53-05:00 SFC Michael Hasbun 27125

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Look at it this way, all the things that ACTUALLY matter, like intelligence, compassion, proficiency, dedication, honor, integrity, honesty, selflessness, judgement, common sense, etc... are all really difficult to quantify in a meaningful, objective way. So, we latch on to something that&#39;s very straight forward, like PT, because it&#39;s easy to train and quantify. It&#39;s easy to measure. The alternative is to admit that there is no accurate cookie cutter metric for evaluating personnel, and we can&#39;t have that...Generic &quot;Z x Y= Good Soldier&quot; is much easier than meaningful counseling, mentorship, development, etc...

2013-12-25T02:34:48-05:00 2013-12-25T02:34:48-05:00 1SG Private RallyPoint Member 27141

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>For some, physical fitness is a huge part of our everyday job. In my few<br /> years of leadership experience, I have learned that the APFT is not a <br />measure of the physical and mental toughness needed to perform in the <br />most extreme combat conditions. As leaders we should always strive for <br />excellence though. In everything we do. While 60 out of 100 may be <br />passing, you are not a leader if your attitude is  -I passed and that's <br />good enough because I'm not physically gifted. If you accept this <br />attitude from Soldiers you lead and do not motivate them to be better in<br /> all areas of being a Soldier, you are failing them! While I am talking <br />about leadership, lets develop the Soldier with a 300 that doesn't know <br />his job. Sometimes we need to do a self assessment  and ask ourselves <br />"am I providing the leadership that each Soldier I am responsible for needs to perform at <br />their maximum potential." We can all learn and improve physically and mentally, always strive for excellence.<br>

2013-12-25T05:17:33-05:00 2013-12-25T05:17:33-05:00 CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member 27143

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>There are two key things to the APFT (or PFT as the case may be): 1. does the person want to be in the military and place themselves beholden to standards they don't control? if the answer is yes, then that's military material; and 2. are they physically fit enough that, when exhausted physically and mentally, they are still mentally and emotionally prepared to try one more time, make one more try, despite odds and fatigue. if the answer is yes, then they're military material. Physical fitness isn't so much about being able to lift heavy things or run 9 miles (although those can be important). It's about the discipline to subordinate yourself to a standard and the willingness and ability to fight on when others reach their emotional breaking point.

2013-12-25T06:15:31-05:00 2013-12-25T06:15:31-05:00 1SG Private RallyPoint Member 27168

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I think the APFT also helps to scale someones discipline. Anyone can do the normal unit PT and pass the APFT, but to me, if you want to be a leader or stand out among your peers, then you should try to do your best and strive to score as high as possible. I literally get upset with myself when I don't score a 300. To me, it means I didnt work hard enough in my off time or I didn't eat the way I should've. Overall health increases brain productivity. So the healthier you are, the better you can be at your technical areas. And then if you fail, you take time away from others, time away from your technical job, and have to do remedial PT. So why not just do it on your own to begin with if you know that unit PT isn't enough for you. It really bothers me when I see an NCO do the minimum required to pass and then get up before the time is over, wether it be pushups or sit-ups. The PT test gives you 2 min to do "as many correctly performed" reps of each. Not 42 and then your done. It should something you actually use to scale your performance. If you do the minimum and then get up, that leaves the command with inaccurate results which is used to determine PT plans sometimes. And regardless of your MOS, you can be put into a position that you may need to be in your best shape. But if you're recovering from a surgery or an illness, the command should realize that. And maybe instead of taking a PT test with your company, your leaders should have you take it alone, or maybe just have a diagnostic to record how your recovery is going. <div><br></div><div>Sorry for the rant, and not sticking specifically to your question. </div>

2013-12-25T09:01:10-05:00 2013-12-25T09:01:10-05:00 MAJ Private RallyPoint Member 27224

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>As others have said, it's just an easy number to look at and get an idea where someone stands. We need to be holistic in our assessments though and factor technical/tactic skill and leadership ability in

2013-12-25T11:10:33-05:00 2013-12-25T11:10:33-05:00 SSG (ret) William Martin 27233

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>One must know how to evaluate or judge a soldier. I look at the whole soldier concept: pt, weapons, college, army education, and the attitude. Putting g soldiers on holy than though because of pt is sort of like old school to me.

2013-12-25T11:41:01-05:00 2013-12-25T11:41:01-05:00 SGM Matthew Quick 27235

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>It's the Army's only quantifiable test, done twice per year, that everyone has to participate in.<br><br>Whether you believe the scoring is accurate or not, it's an easily measurable test of INDIVIDUAL strengths (or weaknesses).

2013-12-25T11:56:31-05:00 2013-12-25T11:56:31-05:00 LTC Private RallyPoint Member 27273

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>You can be dumber than a bag of hammers and continue to get promoted if you have the right badges and a high PT score.<div><br></div><div> I don't like it but it's just the way it is.  It's too easy for leaders who do not know their soldiers capabilities to judge them by their PT score.</div>

2013-12-25T14:15:20-05:00 2013-12-25T14:15:20-05:00 SFC William Swartz Jr 27510

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I never understood the PT Stud mentality of some of the leadership I worked for throughout my career either. I had a discussion with my 1SG when I was a PSG on the subject because my PLT had the lowest company average and I asked him..."Would you rather me have a PLT with all 270+ APFT scores that were less than stellar on the tanks, or would you have them as is, 240 average and all Q1 on TTVIII and perform well in the field?" My PLT was the only one that Q1 all four tanks on TTVIII and shot distinguished on TTXII by the way. I always felt I would rather have a solid 200-220 pt guy that gave his all but knew his job as opposed to a 300 pt guy that didn't know how to opearate on a tank. I always felt it was supposed to be a Total Soldier view of things rather than Board Pretty/PT Stud = Super Trooper.

2013-12-26T09:29:01-05:00 2013-12-26T09:29:01-05:00 CPT Daniel Walk, M.B.A. 27568

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The APFT is, currently, one of only a couple ways to "objectively" measure and individual, their discipline and commitment. <br><br>NCOs and company grade officers do not, very often, have the experience, training, desire, education, will, or et al. to develop an implement measurable and objective standards for judging their subordinates potential for future success. For example, a command team (CDR/1SG) may implement a requirement for every Soldier in the unit to successfully direct a squad during the execution of the 12 or 16 (I can't remember) DnC movements required at WLC (if they still are) prior to attendance at an SGT promotion board. Yes, some Soldiers will have to work harder than others. However, it clearly establishes a measure by which all Soldiers can be judged. It provides the every leader in the unit with a way to evaluate their subordinate leaders ability to plan and execute training, and is free from bias, unless a leader at some level is withholding training from a subordinate, which can be brought to light quickly.<br><br><br>

2013-12-26T13:23:49-05:00 2013-12-26T13:23:49-05:00 SPC Matthew Birkinbine 27682

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I think with the drawdown, physical fitness is going to be a major deciding factor in who best succeeds in today's army and the army of the future. <br /><br />Recognizing pt studs for their performance should be done, but if s/he cannot perform at his/her skill level in his/her MOS, advancement and recognition should stop. <br /><br />This being said, if one has a star worker, intellectual and confident and competent in his/her abilities, that person should have ample time to better his/herself physically, and still be recognized for her/his abilities job-wise. This' easier said than done because hey, let's face it, Pvt Snuffy may not be smart in her mos, but if she can perform well physically, we can at least put her on guard duty and she'll protect our tails in a firefight.

2013-12-26T20:48:33-05:00 2013-12-26T20:48:33-05:00 LTJG Private RallyPoint Member 27783

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Oops, redundant post. :(

2013-12-27T02:25:43-05:00 2013-12-27T02:25:43-05:00 MSG Private RallyPoint Member 27823

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div><p>From my perspective APFT scores do not equate to good leadership skills. However, if you have a group of soldiers that are stellar in all their task which one will standout the most, the PT stud.</p><p> </p><p>If I was your supervisor and knew about your medical conditions and you still pass the PT test I would of put some people in check. Why? Because the Army want soldiers that can bounce back and try their best even if it's 180 PT score.</p>

2013-12-27T08:35:32-05:00 2013-12-27T08:35:32-05:00 SFC Nikhil Kumra 27836

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Probably over praised... However, there's absolutely no reason why any physically healthy person cannot make 300 standards... At the end of the day, the majority of low scores (to include scores of 180, yes, the minimal Army standard) is simply a lack of discipline... We all know what Soldiers do on leave, or when they're off duty, they're not hitting the gym, doing much of any cardio.  Of course there are a few that actually care on their off time, but many don't.  

2013-12-27T09:07:48-05:00 2013-12-27T09:07:48-05:00 SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member 27843

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>SGT Jones, I have to say that my time serving the American people has been served well. One of the things I have learned over the years of service is that the physical fitness scoring system is nothing more than an additional dog and pony show. It has nothing to do with discipline, nor does it have anything to do with fitness. The scoring system, particularly that it is weighted so much higher than everything else, is done so as a way to enforce when it suits commander's needs. When we signed our lives over to the citizens of the United States we made a contractual agreement to be the pynical of fitness. Just like MOS schools don't count for points, and NCOES/OES schools do not count, neither should your ability to PT. The Army awards mediocrity when it does this. The PT should be a go or no-go. Either you meet the standard or you don't. If you decide to exceed the standard, awesome you are now in charge of getting everyone else in your team to exceed it too. You should get nothing for doing what you originally agreed to do when you joined. This also goes for weapons qualifications and many other aspects. Sure, give out the badges, but they are worth just that. Scores should be levied for the areas that actually matter to a soldiers career. Things like going above and beyond in the line of duty (ie a second MOS, additional ratings, civilian college degrees, professional designations, medals and awards) because the truth of the matter is when you are no longer in the military and your resume comes across my desk, I will not be hiring you because you maxed your PT scores 6 years in a row. I will not be hiring you because you can hit a moving target at 300 meters. I might take you hunting in Alaska for 30 days for fun, but I won't pay you for it. The Army should be conditioning you to continue serving people in the civilian world. Maybe if they did that veteran unemployment wouldn't be so damn high. Food for thought...

2013-12-27T09:18:04-05:00 2013-12-27T09:18:04-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 27848

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>As a 13F, we are expected to walk as much or more than your average infantryman, with more weight. We are expected to operate relatively independently of our parent unit on the battlefield. In my 14 years, PT has always been a measuring tool for lower enlisted promotions (for my MOS, our infantry brethren, and our scout counterparts), and I tend to agree- for our MOSs. I don't think it should be the sole determining factor in someone's viability for promotion, but for us, that is about 75% of our job- run, ruck, lift heavy stuff, repeat. Even here as an AIT instructor, we are held to a unit standard of 250 or higher. Nobody gets in trouble for scoring less, but you will definitely not be favored when it comes time for NCOERs.

2013-12-27T09:42:11-05:00 2013-12-27T09:42:11-05:00 1SG Michael Blount 27874

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>PT is one of the few things entirely in one's control.  You can't control the amount of range time you get or number of FTXs or any of a number of things that are reflected one way or the other on your NCOER/OER.  PT is the exception.  Besides, scoring 300 on that sucker is something that puts you head and shoulders above others.

2013-12-27T10:52:38-05:00 2013-12-27T10:52:38-05:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 27889

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>It's because personal physical discipline is the most basic discipline that we as soldiers need to have to operate in combat. A PFC doesn't need to be the smartest guy in the world but if he can grab that 240 and ruck/run with it, point and shoot, and be combat effective than he has the basics of being a soldier mastered. Who would rather have on your team when you're knocked out in a truck from an IED blast? Would you rather have some smart ass SPC that's right on the cusp of failing a PT test and/or weight and tape pulling you out of a truck or that dumb ass PFC that scores a 270+ and can still take and execute orders as needed?<div><br></div><div>It is a Soldiers most basic discipline to be physically fit and it's also where personal accountability starts along with carrying a weapon. I'm soo tired of soldiers/nco's asking this question. It's the American Spirit that made America and our military what it is today, competitiveness and wanting to be better than the man next to you at everything you do. If you or your Soldiers don't have the American Spirit anymore than maybe it's time for you to make your exit.</div><div><br></div><div>I had 2 wrist surgeries in a year, had pins in and out. Took my recovery time and doc wanted to medboard me. Stopped going to the doc and started killing myself everyday I could to get back to where I was, maxed my push ups 4 months later and scored a 278. Stop making excuses for yourself or anyone else. It's you duty to be as physically fit as possible for your country, you get paid for it. If you can't than maybe you should look at trying to get medboarded.</div>

2013-12-27T11:19:45-05:00 2013-12-27T11:19:45-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 27933

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>SGT Jones, you probably aren't the only one that has witnessed this as this has been the norm for many years, at least since the eighties when I came in. I totally agree with you that this is wrong. Since I am getting ready to retire, I don't suppose that my opinion matters. However, if the shoe was on the other foot of those that choose to judge others, I'm sure that their excuse would mirror yours and they would feel just as bad. So long as you aren't trying to get over like a lot of Soldiers do, don't feel bad about something you haven't any control over. Hang in there and continue to strive for excellence and disregard those that lack disobedience and respect for others.

2013-12-27T13:13:37-05:00 2013-12-27T13:13:37-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 27937

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div><br /><br /><p style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;text-indent:0.5in;" class="MsoNormal">I have been in the situation as a<br />senior specialist and young team leader, I had full ACL reconstruction went<br />from 300+ PT and very capable Infantryman to somewhat of a book leader being I<br />was on crutches. My PSG at the time just came from 75th and gave me<br />the opportunity to lead my troops the way I was able to by black board, rock<br />drills etc until I could rehab enough to be out front physically. </p><br /><br /><p style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;" class="MsoNormal">                I do<br />not want a PT stud leader that cannot lead, “a bag of hammers.” Flip side I do<br />not want a NCO that cannot keep up with his Soldiers whether it be training and<br />especially in combat.  I think this is<br />where the stigmatism at least in the Infantry came from how can you keep your<br />men alive if you cannot keep up with them.</p><br /><br />                Someone<br />posted that you cannot improve on intelligence. I disagree with that statement<br />you can get into your AR/FM that guide your MOS/CMF to help understand the<br />administrative or basic side of the MOS/CMF. My first team leader did just<br />that, a brand new private to the Infantry knows little about nothing and he gave<br />me three books to read. I was given the Ranger hand book, FM 7-8 and FM 23-68<br />which of course was the FM for my weapon system the M249. I read these until I<br />could explain battle drill 1A without a pause, until I could break down an op<br />order and explain the cycles of firing for the saw etc. You can always improve<br />your understanding of your profession, just as you can for your physical<br />fitness. If you rely mainly on morning PT and you are complaining that you<br />cannot get above or beyond what you think you can it is because morning PT is<br />for maintaining not improving. (personal opinion) Take the time and go to the<br />gym.

2013-12-27T13:30:27-05:00 2013-12-27T13:30:27-05:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 28163

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Stop pretending. The real questions is why do units treat soldiers with profiles like the plague. I definitely have knee problems from all those hills etc. wait for it. Why dont you go to sick call? Why dont you ask a new question? 181 exceeds the standard. If your broke obviously its legitimate; but dont worry a medical chapter will soon follow. Good thing is medical chapter makes more money than a MSG Retiree. Why I'm confused? Now thats a real discussion. that 12 minute 2 mile  will quickly become a 16 minute 2 mile.

2013-12-27T20:57:06-05:00 2013-12-27T20:57:06-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 28255

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I just read this, but I know out here in Hawaii PT is HUGE.  Tankers are operating in a light Infantry World that is trying to adjust to the fact that they are in all actuality a Srtyker Brigade Combat Team.  So, they are adjusting to the fact that they are not the ground pounding Grunt destroyers of all, that they want to be.  The other thing that they have here is more Ranger Tabs than I have ever seen honestly.   They LOVE it, so they focus on PT big time.  If you are not producing 280 on your APFT then you are not trying.  I have to remind my Soldiers that "death before dismount" is in fact dead and we are in a position where we have to be able to perform at the same level as their brethren.  I have seen the pressure applied from the BN CSM and down though because they look at DA 705's and 5500's long before these guys can even consider going to ANY school much less an NCOES.  So I am saying that PT stud situation is a culture.  I have found that the further I get into my military career and the tougher things get, the more I press my Soldiers to do better and better.  It is becoming a tool to stand out above their peers honestly.  I know that the older I get, the harder I push myself even with my P2 profile, the events that I can do, I ensure that I get a 100 on and it enables me to motivate my Soldiers that way.

2013-12-27T23:36:00-05:00 2013-12-27T23:36:00-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 28334

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I

2013-12-28T08:29:07-05:00 2013-12-28T08:29:07-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 28340

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Physical fitness should never be viewed as a 270 plus marker but as a lifestyle. There should be more focus on the long term post military benefits of physical fitness and nutrition. When I work out, I never train to improve my APFT. I don't even have a clue how many push up and sit ups I will do or how fast I will run until my score is tallied. I'm 37 and I can roll out of bed and get a 290 plus. I see the difference in my deployed soldiers the most. Their job performance and personal attitudes have increased because of weight loss, stamina increase, and strength increase. I get it, physical fitness is just one slot on your ERB when determining the potential of a future leader, but the army is viewed as a physical job. We move stuff, a lot. I feel the military failure is that we wait until a soldier is on the overweight program to educate him/her on nutrition. I just recently attended a NCOPD on the new weight control program and the PowerPoint slide was focused on if you fail tape. How many soldiers have you seen who have no ideal how to work out in the gym (fast gains lead to fast injury) or spend money on unneeded supplement when they can find it free in the food at the DFAC (meal plan). Whether a soldier is a genius or a box of rocks is irrelevant in army physical fitness, but if we shift the focus, we will shift the attitude.

2013-12-28T08:33:12-05:00 2013-12-28T08:33:12-05:00 SFC James Baber 36587

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div><p>I think this is a good thread for those we are trying to get to join can see the substance of some things we discuss between us as current and former military, soft spoken as well as informational and mentoring types of postings.</p><p><br></p><p>We also have fun at times while remaining professional.</p>

2014-01-11T22:57:19-05:00 2014-01-11T22:57:19-05:00 1SG Private RallyPoint Member 91355

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I can answer this question. Its been proven through many doctors, vetinarians, and psyc doctors that the #1 way to train a person or animal is through Physical training. So, if you are good at PT, like to do PT, then you are probably more willing and receptive to be trained. For example, if you have ever seen the Dog Whisperer then you see Mr Milan asking whats wrong with the dog and then whats the next thing you see? You see them walking or running. Another example, if you messed up while in basic training they PTd you and you never did that error again. Like these new Soldiers dont get smoked anymore and look how undiciplined and lazy they are. Physical Training is a good judge of character. I hope this helps.

2014-04-02T06:36:42-04:00 2014-04-02T06:36:42-04:00 LTC Private RallyPoint Member 466215

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I’ve read many of the posts here, and here’s my take. We are Warrior’s in the business of defending our Country &amp; exporting violence. When politics fail we’re the last option. If you don’t recognize that fitness plays a huge role in combat effectiveness, if you think the minimum standard is “good enough” to fight and win on the battlefield, survive war, and help your buddies survive, you need to rethink what you’re doing in this profession. You should dig out &amp; read some biographies of Soldiers from WW II, Korea, and Vietnam. <br />If you don’t like to read, watch the documentary Chosin, on Netflix. You’ll learn that the majority of the soldiers from those wars will say that while their training was good, beingphysically fit really paid off in combat and saved lives. You need to understand what<br />the combat was like in those wars, the physical toll &amp; deprivation, the<br />high intensity conflict. There is nothing saying we won’t have a war against a<br />tier 1 army in the future with those same conditions.<br /><br />Some of the post’s here insinuate that Soldiers with a 300 APFT do not have the<br />mental capacity to lead and get promoted any ways. The opposite is true; I’ve seen many Officers &amp; NCO’s get promoted despite being fat with minimum APFT scores. I think your fooling yourself, giving yourself an excuse. Focus on improving<br />yourself, and the Soldiers around you. If you’ve always had a low score, or an event that you struggle with on the APFT and have never improved from that, you’re doing something wrong, and are succumbing to that little voice in your mind that says you’ll never get there, fight that voice.<br /><br />While the APFT is not a perfect measuring tool, it is what we have. It’s hard to improve when you’re not doing PT, tasked out, have CQ, and all the other things that come down from higher that cut into your PT time. You have to be creative, when you are in the field, do mini-work outs so you’re not at square one when you come out of the field. When<br />I was in Korea in 1985, the APFT was the warm up, not the main event. There are other measurements for unit goals besides the APFT that can and should be implemented.<br /><br />As a measurement for collective and individual readiness do a 6.4 road march with<br />fighting load under an hour, then do 5 unassisted pull-up’s, then a 300 yard shuttle<br />run in under 90 seconds, and then an individual buddy carry with a Soldier of equal weight for 50 yards. Can you set up a M2 after all that, and have the upper body strength to pull the charging handle to the rear and chamber a round? You can be as creative as your imagination<br />&amp; mission dictates. If your company is not doing it, do it at the platoon level, and if not there, at the squad level, and do it on your own. Don’t get too hung<br />up on the APFT and focusing on the APFT alone. What is your mission and what’s the worst case scenario you might find yourself in? Build your PT program fromthere. Finally, to excel at physical fitness you have to consistently exercise, be disciplined about it, and get<br />plenty of rest and the right nutrition for you. Minimize or cut alcohol out totally, it undermines<br />your fitness efforts.

2015-02-09T19:32:50-05:00 2015-02-09T19:32:50-05:00 PFC Alexander Oliveira 1229265

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>because having brains is important but having big muscles is importanter<br /><br />(sarcasm)

2016-01-11T17:54:35-05:00 2016-01-11T17:54:35-05:00 CW4 Private RallyPoint Member 1415501

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>...because a wise man once said.... "You better be smart or tough." The Army prefers tough.

2016-03-30T10:50:18-04:00 2016-03-30T10:50:18-04:00 SGT Blaise Ashton 3932926

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>So 300 is the standard? Raise it there. I am sure that 180 is the standard. If 180 Is not enough pick a number. A standard, to me, means that everyone who meets it is acceptable and capable. Seriously, stop making PT standard of leadership. Make leadership a standard of leadership.

2018-09-03T05:54:00-04:00 2018-09-03T05:54:00-04:00 2013-11-05T10:14:59-05:00