Why is it easier to make on the spot corrections with NCO's than Offiers/Warrant Officers?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Feb 2014 07:21:53 -0500

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2014 7:30 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Feb 2014 07:30:56 -0500

This pretty much sums it up.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2014 7:43 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Feb 2014 07:43:53 -0500

Perhaps its a matter of tact? I don't know any Warrant that wouldn't appreciate someone pointing out a deficiency so they aren't walking around looking "jacked up". Anyone who takes offense to a tactful correction may have a larger issue at hand than just an ego problem.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2014 7:51 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Feb 2014 07:51:41 -0500

Could also be attitude while making the correction. I've personally witnessed the same SGM correct a SPC and a CW3 for the exact same uniform deficiency (trouser leg had come unbloused from the boot).

While talking to the SPC, he said 'Specialist, your trouser leg is unbloused' in a normal tone of voice. The SPC stopped, looked, said 'Oh, thanks SGM! I didn't even see it', and fixed it.

When he encountered the CW3 a couple of days later, he said 'What's the matter with you Mr. X? You think you're better than us now that you've crossed over, you can walk around with your trouser leg unbloused? Fix your jacked up shit.'

That CW3 said nothing, fixed his trouser leg, and walked away from the SGM. The SGM hollered after him 'You're welcome, you rude individual...you could respond after all'.

Yeah...looked to me like that CW3 practiced restraint. I want to be him when I grow up.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2014 8:40 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Feb 2014 08:40:38 -0500

This is easy...Rank and how you were raised in the military. You were brought up in the military to respect the rank. You also were most likely brought up that if there is a problem you address it too your NCOs. One of the side-effects of this is the perception of the junior NCOs that the officer Corp is aloof. This is necassarily true. No one wants to walk around looking all jacked up. It is all about the approach. Pull them to the side and softly inform them of their error. 99% of the time, Senior NCO, Officer, CWO is going to fix the problem. The 1% may get angry or whatever, but at the end of the day, if they know they are wrong, and you tactfully made a correction, they are not going to argue with you, because if it gets elevated to the higher levels it is not going to be good for them. In this case it is the hard right over the easy wrong.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2014 10:51 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Feb 2014 10:51:52 -0500

It comes down (like most things do) to the individual. I've never had a problem with people correcting me, if I'm jacked up, then I'm jacked up. I want to put my best foot forward and represent the army and the Uniform well. If in some sort of bleary eyed delirium at a 0300 recall I missed shaving a spot on my neck, please correct me! If I was looking in the mirror and put my damn name tape and U.S. Army tape backwards, please correct me! If these god damn boot laces stick out again, please correct me! No one ever has too much experience or too much rank in the army, where they never overlook something on any given day. I don't care who it is doing the correcting either, there are PFC's in my unit who know 670-1 backwards and forwards. If they notice something before someone else does, well I hope they'd point it out rather then let someone walk around looking like a fool, and I hope that individual being corrected would realize that it's not about one-upmanship, it's about looking out for one another and having your battle's 6.

Response by SPC Christopher Smith made Feb 4 at 2014 11:33 AM

SPC Christopher Smith — Tue, 04 Feb 2014 11:33:14 -0500

My personal opinion, many people are scared of rank in the military ,so it is easier to brown nose and not ruffle feathers. I accept that this is going to be taken negatively. Oh well.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2014 11:37 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Feb 2014 11:37:30 -0500

I have always learned to talk to soldiers and Airmen (I work with both) with respect and professionalism because you never know who knows who and when in PT uniform what their rank may be. Working as an Honor Guardsman has put me around a wide range of ranks and has made me realize the bad habits that certain service members own. I leave it up to the service member to take what I said and fix it or tell me to kick rocks. Im prepared for both. If that particular person is not in my unit or chain, sometimes I wont even say anything because sometimes their higher chain doesn't like other personnel from another unit fixing their soldiers.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2014 2:50 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Feb 2014 14:50:13 -0500

I have made many OTS corrections with Officers and senior NCOs. Example: "Sir/SGM, your name tape is a little crooked". I have never had someone who out ranked me have an issue with an OTS correction. Most of the time they will thank me. I will say the way you approach them will have something to do with how the correction is received. If you approach them with the attitude of "Hey, fix yourself", you may be in for a little OTS correction yourself.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2014 2:52 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Feb 2014 14:52:13 -0500

SSG Stevenson,

In your organization, it can be real easy for you to make on-the spot corrections on Officers and Warrant Officers:

1) Be professional
2) Use emotional intelligence to connect w/ that Officer or Warrant Officer
3) If you see a trend of having issues w/ Officers/Warrant Officers when making on-the-spot corrections, then bring it to the attention of your 1SG/CSM in a formal matter..possibly a Memorandum for Record stating the issue, discussion and recommendation and I guarantee you it will get fixed. The CSM will simply informed the BN CDR and maybe a class will come out of it on 'Standards and Discipline' or perhaps 'General Military Authority'. Some people think they are above the law until they are reeled back in the easy or hard way.
Sometimes that's what it takes in an organization, but it starts from the top enforcing it, which empowers the subordinates.

Now outside of the organization,that's a different story...you will burn out quickly before you know it trying to address every individual.

Keep enforcing the standards SSG Stevenson and it will pay dividend!

V/r
CW3 Jones

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2015 1:29 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 01:29:47 -0500

Good question Sir! It's tough only because, EVERYBODY expects them to do the right thing always just like us NCO/SNCO's, but we are human and we make mistakes. Tactfully yes! I see it a lot during deployments, but it seems like deployments are the place to let loose on Drees and Appearance

Response by MAJ Jim Steven made Jan 15 at 2015 1:50 AM

MAJ Jim Steven — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 01:50:11 -0500

I am a believer in treating people how you want to be treated.
If you are respectful, you will be respected.
What I recently learned, from Rallypoint, no less...is that people seem to think that when there is an opportunity of a spot correction, it's a justifiable opportunity to be a disrespectful to a higher ranking individual.
An officer can overllok a uniform issue just like anyone else, and I would imagine that 9 times out of 10, you can politely point it out and not have a problem. And, occasionally, you will get THAT guy...
Anyone can come talk to me, about pretty much anything...but if you are going to be a jackas about it (because 660-1is on your side), then, good Sir, you may go screw yourself!!!!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2015 12:24 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Jan 2015 00:24:32 -0500

I correct both if I see something out of regulation.

I just do it with discretion. I have corrected a LTC in the commissary as the name tapes were reversed. Of course that seems to be the most common thing I catch.

I corrected a Soldier out in public when I was in TRADOC at a store by showing my I.D. and telling him he knew better. No scene off base necessary. He corrected himself w/o a word spoken.

If you are afraid or whatever to correct someone of higher rank then you are not a Leader.

I have even been corrected by a lower ranking Soldier. I felt like a fool. I changed uniforms and did not place my American Flag on the shoulder. He even gave me one then disappeared before I could try and five him money or anything.

Response by 1SG Cameron M. Wesson made Jan 18 at 2015 9:01 PM

1SG Cameron M. Wesson — Sun, 18 Jan 2015 21:01:36 -0500

SSG Private RallyPoint Member SSG Stevenson... others may have other experiences; however, after 31 years (22 on AD and then 9 as a DA civilian) I have never found it more difficult or easier versus the ranks.

AFter I was promoted to CPL... and my PSG dug in my 4th POC about the need for "Tact"... that became the manner of address and engagement practice. I believe I can safely say that I don't know any soldier "O/W/E" that doesn't appreciate another soldier squaring them away where they aren't walking around... let us say... "chewed up".

Those that do take offense that outrank you... salute or whatever and walk away. They have a larger challenges and aren't worth you effort... as Karma is payback.

my 2 cents

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 3:11 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Jan 2015 15:11:51 -0500

I'm a commissioned officer in the Army Reserve. I am not above the fact that I can sometimes not be dress right dress, and I count on my Soldiers just as much as they count on me to say something when something is amiss (be it anything from a small uniform deficiency to decisions that affect lives/careers).

Remember, as professionals, we must carry ourselves with situational awareness and address those around us with the proper due respect. A lot of care and a little bit of tact is all that is needed when helping an officer. So by all means, no matter your rank you should not shy away from talking to an officer and letting them know something that ultimately is for their own benefit.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2015 11:18 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 11:18:06 -0500

It shouldn't be. I see an issue, I point it out. The key here is tact. Always, respectfully, point out the issue quietly without a scene. Making a scene is unnecessary, especially in public. Obviously, a Basic Training environment is different for trainees (Former DS). But out and about in garrison or civilian areas, low key. Offer a friendly smile, and they usually appreciate that you helped them out...