Will stopping immigration from Middle Eastern countries stop terror attacks?

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 10:02:54 -0400

Stopping immigration, doesn't complete the picture for preventing terrorism. These perpetrators of terror were/are citizens of European countries, where they struck fellow citizens.
Medhi Nemmouche, was Belguim, Salah Abdeslam, is Belgium, Amedy Coulibaly, is French, Cherif and Said Kouachi (brothers) are French, Ismael Omar Mostefai is French,Khalid and Ibrahim el-Bakraoui (brothers) were Belgium

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Mar 24 at 2016 10:10 AM

SrA Edward Vong — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 10:10:49 -0400

Hard screening immigrants from all backgrounds can help prevent terror attacks. Terrorists don't just come from middle eastern countries.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Mar 24 at 2016 10:18 AM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 10:18:00 -0400

Stop them now? After ISIS already told they were shipping their soldiers out with the first wave? As the government heads of state in Europe were so busy being politically correct, they never thought about what happens afterwards?
Now, it's a lot like shutting the barn door after the horse is already out.

Response by CSM David Heidke made Mar 24 at 2016 10:22 AM

CSM David Heidke — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 10:22:19 -0400

There doesn't seem to be a rash of terrorism from Quakers, or Amish... You can say all you want that anyone can be a terrorist, but look at the names in your post. None are Smith, Jones, Murphy, or Heidke for that matter. They are all middle eastern names. The press is famous for saying Belgian man, or Brockton man, when the perpetrator is clearly an immigrant.

I agree with SrA Edward Vong, hard screening needs to be in place.

And tougher immigration and screening from ANY country will slow terrorism here.

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Mar 24 at 2016 10:26 AM

Capt Tom Brown — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 10:26:11 -0400

Our very own POTUS is opening the doors to 10K ME-type refugees and their tag-along terrorists using the same vetting criteria which failed in the case of the San Bernardino killers. European countries are feeling the pinch of unfettered immigration from past years and it will only get worse for them and US. DTs proposals on immigration and the 'wall' are broad brush allegories for stepped up comprehensive measures to control unencumbered free access by millions of illegal aliens, legit migrants and their terrorist clones. No one thinks DT is literal about building a brick and mortar wall, but it does get to the heart of the matter and our national weakness to attack by infiltration. The war on terrorism will require draconian measures, far and above any ever before considered. Taking Europe as an example of the present state of protection DT is the only one who has recognized and addressed threats to the country.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Mar 24 at 2016 10:28 AM

LTC Paul Labrador — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 10:28:46 -0400

By itself? No. But it does help to mitigate the risk in some ways. The risk with immigration is not the one or two individuals who immigrate. Those folks are relatively easy to vette. It's when you have a massive influx of people that bad guys can slip in. The bigger issue is how are these Muslim citizens being radicalized?

Response by SPC Corbin Sayi made Mar 24 at 2016 10:55 AM

SPC Corbin Sayi — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 10:55:54 -0400

Yes, the names mentioned were born into the EU -- however, their parents were immigrants, which leads down the same problem: immigration without hard screening, as mentioned before. There wouldn't be a need to worry either way if immigration were to be halted completely.

The plan to halt immigration probably doesn't include a time machine to reject all immigrating families from the past, it means it can prevent terrorism in the future, allowing the EU to reassess their situation and lick their wounds, until they are confident enough to accept immigration applications again.

Clearly nothing is being done correctly with the borders being open, it's like trying to solve a math problem that is constantly changing its variables, if there's no 'pause' button, it will never be solved.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Mar 24 at 2016 11:24 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 11:24:10 -0400

As many domestic terrorists and spree killers as we produce, you might as well place us on the no import/export list as well...

Response by SrA Paul Pfeil made Mar 24 at 2016 11:28 AM

SrA Paul Pfeil — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 11:28:32 -0400

No, but it sure couldn't hurt. It would definitely be a step in the right direction.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Mar 24 at 2016 11:32 AM

SSG Warren Swan — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 11:32:25 -0400

America has a stereotype of what a Muslim looks like, dresses like, eats, drinks, and how they pray. Mass media perpetrates this belief and takes it to the next level. I laugh at the ignorance shown on mass media by those who have really NO CLUE, but have "ALL" the clues, through degree's, having that one Islamic friend, the SM's who's deployed to either theater and heard the call to prayer, or the "Man love Thursdays jokes", lost a buddy to Islam, NOT to a another man who actually killed them. And these are also considered "experts" in Islam. I even look at some of the replies on here, and usually the comments fall into what I've described above, NOT from actually learning the teachings of Muhammad from an Imam, talking with someone of the faith (not in a condescending tone or one of bigotry), or even wanting to understand the five W's and How of Islam.
When it comes to immigration stopping anything, what do we think is going to happen? No more terrorism? Put more police into "Muslim" neighborhoods. Did you do that when the Mob was stronger and they're Catholic? They've killed WAY more over the long haul than any terrorist. How did it work for you? When we single out one group, even if they're not doing anything wrong, we legitimize the stereotype held against that group. For every ONE person who's killed in the "name" of Allah, we've had two kill in the name of God, or Jesus. We keep talking about SB and those two. What about the abortion killing, or since it was done by a white man and we can't keep a white man out, and he's alive, he gets a pass? Plus PP was a hot topic on the news with folks wanting to take funding away from them anyhow, so what's a few dead "babykillers". Stopping terrorism will not come through closing the borders. Stopping terrorism will not stop because we put more cops into "Muslim" neighborhoods. It's called profiling, and is ILLEGEAL in the US. NYPD had a BIG problem with that while Giuliani was in office. Want to "stop" terrorism? Get over the fact of race and religion being the reasons. Understand the undertones that make it happen. Stop with "domestic" terrorism vs. Terrorism. The SB incident was labeled as terrorism, but they were both here legally, had jobs and paid taxes, so why wasn't it "domestic terrorism"....skin color and religion. Stop with the keyboard warrior shit where "we're gonna get a bunch of folks together and throw eggs at a Mosque and when they come out to confront us, we'll shoot them, cuz this is "Merica, and we're Christians in 'Murica". That was the intent of some keyboard warriors in AZ. They even asked for members to bring weapons to "protect themselves" in a "peaceful demonstration". Yes I know I spelled it two different ways. Stop with "If the moderates would tell the hardliners to stop, then it would". Bullshit. When Dylan Roof killed those folks in the church, did you hear any pastors of ANY skin color mentioning not to kill BEFORE? It's NOT like he was the first one to kill, or to kill in a religious tone. Waco had that happen before. So if silence is compliance, then every Pastor, Rabbi, Preacher, Reverend, should be on TV spreading the word "thou shalt not kill" to their flock. When the day comes we REALLY want to understand the other, and their views, NOT use the herd mentality to think for us, we "might" get somewhere. Until then....anyone got some 5.56 hollows and tracer I can borrow? Don't want no "Muslim" knocking on my door.......(SARCASM BTW). Malcolm X hit the nail on the head when he did the pilgrimage. He was told the white man this, the white man that. When he went on the pilgrimage, he saw what we REFUSE to acknowledge. Islam isn't a person, race, or any other stereotype, it's a belief held by many DIFFERENT people of many different races. He accepted it, came home a changed man and would soon be dead.
http://islam.uga.edu/malcomx.html

Malcolm X's (Al-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz) Letter from Mecca

When he was in Makkah, Al-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz wrote a letter to his loyal assistants in Harlem... from his heart:

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Mar 24 at 2016 11:46 AM

SSgt Jim Gilmore — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 11:46:59 -0400

No but it will give us an opportunity to develop a system to better vet those seeking entry into the US. Unless and until such a program can be developed, all visas from mooslim countries should be halted.

Response by SPC James Dollins made Mar 24 at 2016 12:29 PM

SPC James Dollins — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 12:29:28 -0400

The simple answer.... NO! Their have been "Radical" believers since the beginning of civilization. Unfortunately they aren't just Muslims. Some of them are natural born U.S. citizens; ie: McVey, Koresh, Manson, Hassan.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Mar 24 at 2016 12:37 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 12:37:24 -0400

Once upon a time, I heard something about "shutting the barn door after the horses had already escaped." This seems similar but opposite. Will it do any good to shut the barn door after the horses have already infiltrated? We may not be at war, but someone sure as hell is at war with us, and they've infiltrated the lines (borders). More in some places than others. And they're recruiting.

Interestingly, when I researched Castro's revolution in Cuba to write my book, I was surprised to learn that he left Mexico with some 82 armed men to serve as cadre to train and organize recruits on the island. He was attacked when he landed and only about a dozen survived. Still, that was enough to recruit and train an army that overthrew the dictator Batista and his American equipped and trained army of 40,000. It doesn't take many, does it?

No, we don't want to stop "immigration", lawful immigration of people who want to become Americans. What we want to stop is infiltration of terrorists who want to destroy or subjugate Americans. Meanwhile, we have a pile of them already here to deal with and stopping any further infiltration won't help with that.

Response by SPC David S. made Mar 24 at 2016 12:39 PM

SPC David S. — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 12:39:47 -0400

We are indeed engaged in a war on terrorism, it is a war not against tank divisions or infrastructure, but against a mindset or ideology. Our enemy’s center of gravity lies in the thirst of millions of young people, especially those in particular regions of the world, for self-actualization, identity, and self-worth in a world filled with daunting (and Western-tainted) free choice and options. The origins of this threat are psychological, very much as existentialists would understand them, rather than (primarily) political or material. Not to say there aren't external political forces at work but more so the root cause of this violence is a result of radicalized individuals searching for their purpose. It's rather easy to sway an individual who is so desperately seeking self-worth to latch on to extremist ideologies. This is a border-less war rooted in psychology not some Middle East sovereignty. As well our defense in combating the ideology is self for filling and reinforces or justifies the use of violence. This type of problem is not so easily diminished, think in IRA terms 1969–2005 with a cease fire being declared in 1997. This current divergence is along those lines but much worse as the scope and size of this ideological war is immense in comparison.

More generally, Muslims mostly say that suicide bombings and other forms of violence against civilians in the name of Islam are rarely or never justified, including 92% in Indonesia and 91% in Iraq. In the United States, a 2011 survey found that 86% of Muslims say that such tactics are rarely or never justified. An additional 7% say suicide bombings are sometimes justified and 1% say they are often justified in these circumstances. While I know not all 1.6 billion fit the demographic of a the typical terrorists we are still talking about stopping the proliferation of such ideologies from a large population - not to mention Islam is as a religion is growing faster than the population. This is not going to be as easy as defeating ISIS - as its the ideology that needs to be defeated.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2016 1:01 PM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 13:01:23 -0400

Yes and No. Did killing all the chicken stop the bird flu?? lol

Response by PO2 David Allender made Mar 24 at 2016 1:07 PM

PO2 David Allender — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 13:07:32 -0400

It is a well known fact of life for anybody in the service, or who has served, that the only way top stop an enemy is to meet him face to face. I don't like war. I hate killing, but face it people, the world has to get down and fight ISIS and others organizations like them. As a General Patton in WW2 said, "Don't you die for your country, let the other poor bastard die for theirs." It is the only way to stop them. Air power helps, but it isn't going to stop them. The United Nations needs to get off their back side and send in the troops and end this hate once and for all.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Mar 24 at 2016 1:12 PM

Cpl Jeff N. — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 13:12:49 -0400

CPT Private RallyPoint Member . They might have been born in Belgium but they do not view themselves as Belgians or Flemish etc. They are muslims (jihadists) first and foremost. They identify by religion, not birth place/nationality. We need to stop assuming they view things the same way we do. We make grave errors in judgment thinking jihadists born in any country identify with that country and view others born there as "fellow citizens. Nothing could be further from the truth. Most of us identify as Americans. Many muslims self identify by their religion, period (not all).

No one suggested stopping immigration only making sure we can vet the applicants (whoever they might be) correctly. We also should deport those that are here that over stay Visas or display radical tendencies.

Response by SGT James Hastings made Mar 24 at 2016 1:46 PM

SGT James Hastings — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 13:46:49 -0400

Unfortunately, I don't think that will stop local people already in the US from terror attacks. Especially, if they pay attention to the debates among our candidates!

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Mar 24 at 2016 2:38 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 14:38:19 -0400

No as they are amongst us now.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Mar 24 at 2016 2:42 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 14:42:26 -0400

We're attempting to use "imprecise" terms to deal with a complex problem.

It's like talking about the "Immigration Problem" in the US.

Let me pontificate for a moment. I am 100% pro-Immigration. Immigrants leave places that are bad, and go to places that are better. Pretty simple concept. Love it. Love Immigrants! I love Immigrants because they want something better for themselves and their families. It takes A LOT to give up EVERYTHING and jump into the complete unknown. These are the people who assimilate and become Americans. They pay their taxes and become productive members of society.

That said, I'm ANTI-"undocumented-worker." They are the drain on our resources. They don't pay taxes. They don't get insurance. They're just "in the way people."

Now... Stopping "Immigration" is too wide a net (imprecise term). What is really suggested is stopping a Mass Migration or Refugee Shift. We need Immigrants who are Risking things. The "select few" (think of it like those select few who "raise their right hand"). We don't want every Tom, Dick, and Harry. That's how you end up with bad apples.

If we set the bar high (What do you bring to the table?), a lot of this would self-correct.

Response by CW2 Louis Melendez made Mar 24 at 2016 10:05 PM

CW2 Louis Melendez — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 22:05:13 -0400

Short answer: No
Should better mechanisms be in place to screen immigrants (regardless of nationality)? Absolutely Yes

Response by SPC Andy Gibson made Mar 24 at 2016 10:27 PM

SPC Andy Gibson — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 22:27:04 -0400

Nope!!! The only thing that will work is 556 or 762 center mass!!!!

Response by SrA Matthew Knight made Mar 24 at 2016 10:42 PM

SrA Matthew Knight — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 22:42:46 -0400

Unfortunately there is no real way of stopping terrorism. It's going to happen because there will always be people who are angry and hate something. If the attacks aren't from immigrants there is enough people insane enough already in the States to pull something off.

I don't think we should shut down completely to immigration, it won't help. However, increasing security and keeping an eye on those who do come from violent areas, big brother as it may seem, could help. There definitely needs to be a better screening process. People who have been investigated or have open investigations against them for possible links to terroristic activities should not be allowed for sure.

I don't know, it just seems like there's better ways to do it.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2016 12:43 AM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 00:43:07 -0400

While we are now killing the Muslim grandfathers, grandmothers, fathers, mothers, aunts and uncles who are the "infantry" of ISIS and all the other terrorist organizations, leaving tens of thousands of others like them to commit the suicide bombings, there are untold numbers of "Faith-based" groups, UN groups, and major American charities going back into their bomb-ravaged villages and caves and feeding and educating their orphaned children, in an attempt to break the cycle of violence. After a couple thousand years of such unfathomable bloodshed, all these groups are succeeding in doing is raising the next generation of killers. The goodwill and good intentions of these groups is only ensuring that the War on Terror will never end. No one can kill an idea, especially one that is fundamentally intertwined with fanatical religious beliefs.