Will the United States ever fail?

2015-01-15T21:12:12-05:00

I had a conversation in an academic setting with senior officer. He opined that the United States will never fail because when it comes down to it, Americans adapts, changes, and grows to meet obstacles head on.

In light of all that is going on politically, religiously, economically, and educationally-at home and abroad-is America, as we know it on a path to failure?

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Jan 15 at 2015 9:24 PM

2015-01-15T21:24:17-05:00

My heart hopes no and my brain says yes.

All systems degrade over time and eventually break down, Nation-States notwithstanding, and they tend to follow a pattern as they do it. I've written a bit about it on another post here somewhere and I might try to link to it at some point.

But I can't think of a better way to set up a robust self-sustaining system of governance or how to implement it. Taking an oath to support and defend the framework for this one seemed like the thing to do. So I hope we can keep it going a few lifetimes more.

Response by SGT Dave Adams made Jan 15 at 2015 9:57 PM

2015-01-15T21:57:37-05:00

I belive so.

Response by Capt Gregory Prickett made Jan 15 at 2015 9:58 PM

2015-01-15T21:58:04-05:00

All countries, nations, and empires fall at some point. Some survive as lesser examples of themselves. Others just go away.

Response by SSgt Randy Saulsberry made Jan 16 at 2015 12:11 AM

2015-01-16T00:11:03-05:00

History has already taught that all great empires get knocked off the mountain top.

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Jan 16 at 2015 9:19 AM

2015-01-16T09:19:21-05:00

America is learning, growing, and changing....however, will the US ever fail? yes. no. Maybe. US Failure....is it overall or on a specific area? I think the US has failed on specific items a number of times...remember, failure is having poor results due to action or lack of action. We have had that. US Failure maybe/no..... depends really on the will of the people and the elected officials. If the people are involved and elect good leaders, the US will continue to move forward. If the people descend into "who cares" only poor leaders (those with personal agendas) will seek office and eventually drive things into the ground.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2015 10:22 AM

2015-01-16T10:22:42-05:00

"It's America, Jim, but not as we know it." Dr. McCoy--deleted line from The Omega Glory episode of Star Trek: TOS.

We have already adapted, changed, and grown into something different than was intended. Into a Democracy from a Republic. Into a welfare state from embracing individualism and independence. Into a Corporatist economy from free markets.....

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2015 10:59 AM

2015-01-16T10:59:35-05:00

I don't agree that everything is doom and gloom currently, or that the past was some noble, glorious ideal we should return to.

That said, every great empire has come to an end eventually. The question is, what form will the failure take? Will it be a spectacular, total collapse, as the Roman empire or Persian empire did? Or will it be a slower rolling back, as happened to Great Britain? Britain still exists, but it is no longer an empire spanning the globe. China still exists, but they are far from the height of their power. Even Russia still exists, following the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

My guess is that America will continue to exist, but it is unlikely we will continue to be the #1 global power forever.

I love Jeff Daniels monologue in "The Newsroom" about how America is no longer the greatest country in the world. I think he makes many, valid points, and that many of us are just willing to write off these criticism as "haters" and "traitors", rather than try to solve the problems he points out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPHSXUS0_1c

Why America isn't the greatest country in the world anymore.

The opening scene of HBO's "The Newsroom".

Response by SSG Dwight Amey MSA, MSL, BS, AS made Jan 16 at 2015 11:11 AM

2015-01-16T11:11:19-05:00

The problems we had during the course of our history especially our Civil War. A Civil War should cause a fail quite decisively. In my opinion, the function of government needs a sound foundation and a awareness of hope for the future. The Civil War crushed both of these elements. Somehow, we survived. Insurgency, is a tough fight to win while our government in labor pains of another Civil War, but I still have hope.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2015 11:19 AM

2015-01-16T11:19:55-05:00

Of course it will. No civilization throughout all of recorded history has stood the test of time. Rome itself only lasted a couple millenia and is considered amazingly long lasted. It is naive and arrogant to think that the United States will somehow succeed at a task that is so ridiculous in scope, to last the length of all of future recorded history. There will come a day when new government that is not based on our current constitution will hold power, the only questions are when, how, and whether we'll have the strength as a people to ensure that the successor government is as great as or better than what came before it.

Now let the red thumbs rain.

Response by SSG Robert Reynolds made Jan 16 at 2015 11:28 AM

2015-01-16T11:28:04-05:00

With two daughters, I have to be optimistic. Our education system keeps me very pessimistic though. Every day, my girls come home from school with a new common core surprise for me and I have to teach them the same things again in a way that make sense. I look around me and see the complete lack of financial discipline and personal responsibility around me. Everything is someone else's fault. When I had my own soldiers to lead, I taught money management and basic facts of life like buying a car but these things were looked down upon and I was forced to do these things on my own time. If one of my soldiers wanted to buy a car, I took him car shopping and personally walked him through the steps of negotiating with the salesman and finance personnel and how to research banks and interest rates and terms.

My point is that if our own soldiers are not being taught these things and they are expected to magically know these things, they will fail. Their leadership mostly believe counseling statements are the cure for everything like motrin. The same goes for the rest of our society. We are expected to know things we are not being taught and we are therefore failing. We don't know what we don't know.

Entire curricula are being stripped from our education systems and we are standing by and not tracking any of it. The same happened to us while our folks stood by believing everything was the same quality they had.

My advise is if you want to see what the status of our country is and where it is going, don't worry about the headlines. Read the financial section, follow the money, there is a wealth of knowledge in the money trail. Never stop asking why.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2015 12:11 PM

2015-01-16T12:11:01-05:00

We have been the greatest nation on earth, but greed has inherently veered our course off the path of continued greatness.

We have a military that can protect our nation like none on this planet, we have a powerful industrial base (when utilized right), we have a constitution that works (that is the envy of the rest of the planet - that has given us the basis for our growth), and the ingenuity to create a better way of life for not just our own people but for everyone.

Our infra-structure made this nation into the first “Super Power’ – unfortunately, we have let this structure become neglected and in disrepair (our power grid is failing, our roads, rails and bridges are degrading, etc.). If we continue to keep a blind eye to this situation we will have thrown away all that has been done and given to us by our predecessors.

In order to change this situation around we should do a few things in the short term (until we get to the point where we have the ability to offer help again) – we should cut all foreign aid (put this money back into our country’s infra-structure rebuild) also, to all the U. S. corporations that have moved operations out of our country to evade paying taxes and utilizing (pretty much a slave type) labor force – institute a tax and/or tariff – so that they are paying the same as if they were still here in the CONUS.

These two changes would put a tremendous amount of people to work in the U.S. and pump needed dollars back into the economy (and the other added benefit would be building our infra-structure back to the shape that made us a ‘Super Power’ to start with).

If we don’t fix our infra-structure, and don’t take care of our mentally ill, homeless, and low income members of our society – I fear we will follow the path of other great nations in history (one example: the Roman empire). Our nation has been slowly pushing the ‘middle class’ out of existence - if this doesn’t change we will wind up with only a lower class and upper class situation. This type of situation never works very well for very long.

But, in general we are a nation of great thinkers and doers – we just need to get refocused on what is important (taking care of our people) and what is needed to be done to change our current state of affairs and put us back on the road to being the ‘shining gleam of hope’ that our citizens and the rest of the world needs.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2015 12:22 PM

2015-01-16T12:22:15-05:00

I'm not sure that we'll fail, per se, but I don't think that the United States will forever and always be the premier superpower. In 100 years, we may not have forces in over 100 countries. In 100 years we may joint a coalition "willingly" to fight a war for someone else. In 100 years, English may no longer be the lingua franca. However, I think that in 100 years the United States of America will still exist. The United Kingdom exists, even if it's a shell of its former empire. After two devastating world wars, Germany still exists as done Japan. I don't think, provided that there isn't some unforeseen disaster, that states will just disappear. Well, not western states, at least. Look how difficult it was to create South Sudan!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2015 12:29 PM

2015-01-16T12:29:41-05:00

I say "On a path to failure" if for no other reason than that no nation, state, or empire is exempt from the course of history. There is no empire on earth that has lasted forever. Ours won't be an exception. If we remember these facts and stay vigilant, we'll last longer than if we don't, but I'm certainly not holding my breath.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Jan 16 at 2015 12:39 PM

2015-01-16T12:39:07-05:00

Part of me really hopes we do so we can rebuild from scratch. The country of America is in trouble and has made of mess of itself, but the concept/idea of America is still strong in the hearts of patriots and will hopefully never die!

Response by SPC Joshua H. made Jan 16 at 2015 1:11 PM

2015-01-16T13:11:39-05:00

I see us currently on a path to failure. As long as people can keep voting to keep their pockets full, they will, as will the next generation, and the following...and it will keep getting worse with each next generation. We do not have the illegal immigrant issue here because there is work, it is because of all the free stuff they can get.

We AS A NATION need to quit with the BS, stop sending billions of dollars to countries that want to kill us, and start working on the social, economic, and structural issues we have HERE. We need to get to the inner cities, show these families that there IS a way for a better life, but it takes work. We need to help companies grow, instead of making them spend their profit on stupid regulation and oversight. We need to move some of the WAY over paid government jobs back to the private sector to help promote growth. We need to get rid of redundant government agencies and unconstitutional agencies. Need to downsize and force efficiency at many others.

We currently have an awesome system of government that prevents mob-rule. We have more freedom than pretty much the rest of the world. But as long as we keep this broken and corrupt 2 party system in power, we are going to keep declining, one step at a time.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2015 2:07 PM

2015-01-16T14:07:47-05:00

So I can see three things happening with say 50 years:

1) We get annihilated by a world war 3 situation (nukes included)

2) Economical Collapse (Most USA jobs are service and not manufacturing)

3) United States of [insert corporate sponsor here]

and a Pandora's box of Hope: 4) We continue to build a more perfect union.

Response by SFC Philip Poole made Jan 16 at 2015 3:14 PM

2015-01-16T15:14:54-05:00

When I look at what America started out to be and is now, it seems certain that it is a failed system. Look at the "Cycle of Democracy " and you'll see we're in the later part. Parts of America, primarily in the inner cities, are fully in the Dependency stage of the cycle, one away from full on Tyranny. I don't use that term flippantly, or in an alarmist sense.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2015 11:11 PM

2015-01-16T23:11:21-05:00

When it comes to trying to fight against insurgents and terrorists, America, as a whole, has a lot to learn... from learning to not antagonize a particular ethnic group by giving proper knowledge of the groups culture while also trying to not take complete control of anti insurgent governments and let them deal with the problem themselves instead of doing the job for them (ie: training the country and not engaging in operations and let them do the job themselves completely)

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2015 11:27 PM

2015-01-16T23:27:04-05:00

I don't think America is failing... It won't fail. I think the core reason of American Exceptionalism is based on her ability to learn, grow, and change with the times. While there are may reasons to believe her failure is determined, I have faith in Columbia to find her right path...

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2015 11:57 PM

2015-01-16T23:57:06-05:00

Yeah I think we are in danger. Its not ISIS. We have a society that is becoming more complacent and narcissistic. Our legislators make laws that benefit the few powerful and not the nation as a whole. We are hypocritical, because on one end the spectrum we talk about personal responsibility and consequences, yet on the other end we reward failure by bailing out large companies because they are too big to fail. If I fail at my job I am fired with no severance. If a CEO fails they get a multi-million dollar payout and are still allowed fringe benefits from the company they left. We believe in free market competition as long as the competition does not take the revenue stream away from company X, by protectionist policies. We are seeing more underemployment, and that people are longer considered a valued resource. The country as a whole treats politics like a football game as in I vote for my team no matter what, when we should be firing our long term leadership that is failing us. Both sides are equally guilty voting policies that do not benefit the masses. They get away with it because they throw fringe issues that are irrelevant with more important ones that need to be addressed now. But the average dolt bites off on it every time. A few people in this country are doing what they can to benefit themselves in the short term despite that it will ruin us long run.

Unless the country wakes up and starts recognizing the common goal of the nation we are in a spiral dive accelerating to the ground.

Done with rant!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2015 6:05 AM

2015-01-18T06:05:29-05:00

America has already failed by trying to be politically correct in everything we do. Our enemies do not care about what is right. They only want to harm us and our way of life. We should be doing everything we can to protect our country, not appease an enemy that will never care about what is right.

Response by SPC Christopher McClaskey made Jan 18 at 2015 7:47 AM

2015-01-18T07:47:57-05:00

We have in so many ways when we take better care of the ones that don't do anything and then we want to give them more

Response by Sgt Packy Flickinger made Jan 18 at 2015 2:13 PM

2015-01-18T14:13:15-05:00

Fail or be overrun by Mexico and Islam that the current admin is promoting?

We've fallen from the top credit rating. Actual unemployment is well into double digits. Debt has more than doubled in last 8 years. The hate mongering in Hollywood and top govt admin...
I hope we start electing some people with a backbone and a bit of common sense.

Response by GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad made Mar 13 at 2015 4:15 AM

2015-03-13T04:15:06-04:00

As much as it pains me to say it --- YES --- I do believe this country is on a path to failure.

We have "leadership" in Washington (in both the White House and Congress) who are clearly not thinking about what is good for the country anymore. Politics has become more divisive than ever and voters more apathetic than ever. We have built up a mountain of debt and just keep piling more on. We're "engaged" all over the damn world while here at home our infrastructure crumbles.

Frankly, I don't like to think about what this country is going to be like 20 years from now. Fortunately, I won't be around to see it . . .

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2015 6:03 AM

2015-03-13T06:03:08-04:00

Our current path seems arrogant and unsustainable. I think it's more a question of "when" rather than "if."

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 6 at 2015 11:33 PM

2015-10-06T23:33:54-04:00

Of course it will. Not because it's on any path to destruction or anything like that, but does anyone here seriously believe that any nation is or can ever be completely immortal? Even in the best possible case in the furthest possible future . . . eventually our whole solar system will simply cease to be. The point is not to never die, but rather to live a good, long, healthy life where we improve the lives of people around us. Maybe in a few hundred years a better nation will arise, Maybe we have already failed in the past and are now a wiser people in a nation that shares nothing with it's predecessor but a name and some paper. Or maybe I need to drink less coffee because I'm getting rambly. In any case: live, love, be happy.

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Oct 7 at 2015 7:36 PM

2015-10-07T19:36:02-04:00

Nothing lasts forever, not Rome, Not the extended british empire, not persia... all things fall in time.

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Oct 12 at 2015 3:08 PM

2015-10-12T15:08:51-04:00

Climate Change is not the greatest threat to National Security; the National Debt is up there near the top and most people aren't even thinking about the consequence of a National Debt that now exceeds our GDP.

Thomas Sowell on the Dismantling of America:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SDLBqIubCs

Thomas Sowell -- Dismantling America

Thomas Sowell has studied and taught economics, intellectual history, and social policy at institutions that include Cornell University, UCLA, and Amherst Co...

Response by PV2 Scott Goodpasture made Oct 12 at 2015 5:39 PM

2015-10-12T17:39:39-04:00

When you throw corruption and treason into the equation, failure seems imminent

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Oct 12 at 2015 5:54 PM

2015-10-12T17:54:26-04:00

Does failing possibly means we might lose two wars? Sometimes one must look back at history to understand the future.

Response by PO2 Lester Sullivan made May 10 at 2016 3:13 PM

2016-05-10T15:13:30-04:00

With Osamabama in WH, enemies running dc, and O-Care having very little to do with healthcare, the game pieces are being put into play to kill it. Check conventionofstates.com b4 too late!

Response by PO2 Lester Sullivan made May 10 at 2016 3:55 PM

2016-05-10T15:55:35-04:00

Likely get called "Conspiracy Wacko", but game to throw whole world out of whack been going on for awhile! Get bits of info here and there, like banks run Federal Reserve (Wizard of Oz), dictators put in to control population (imagine population without war), need 3 earths to feed future inhabitants (Soylent Green), and mystery viruses pop up (Zika, AIDS). Guess God suckered Satan into doing his dirty work for him;)

Response by SGT Jose Perdelia-Torres made Jun 1 at 2016 1:28 PM

2016-06-01T13:28:45-04:00

Yes it will fall, because the United States Government is corrupt. The leaders for the most part are among the least visionary- well they have a vision, but it is not representative for those they represent; at least not the majority. this country is comprised of the "haves" and "have-nots". Lobbyists hired by/of the Haves dictate which bills ultimately become laws and which don't. It is all based upon the interests of a few rich men and women. they dictate everything from the next President of the United States, to what information will be covered among the news, what things go along with the agendas being pursued. The rest of us exist as expendables, we are necessary to keep their goals afloat, but we are nothing to them except a means to an end. A happily ever after that doesn't include the majority of us.

Response by Pat McCracken made Oct 2 at 2016 9:41 PM

2016-10-02T21:41:03-04:00

I pray every day for this nation, it's leaders, and "we the people", and pray that as a nation we can turn ourself around. It saddens and scares me to see the world my grandchildren are growing up in. I believe that as a nation we have the potential to be rise from where we are now, but it will take determination, a change of mindset, change of heart, and a renewed love and pride in our country. As long as we are fighting and killing each other, we will always be in danger of falling just as the great empires of earlier eras have.

Response by SSgt Harvey "Skip" Porter made Nov 23 at 2017 11:57 PM

2017-11-23T23:57:09-05:00

Our politicians have consistently failed us.

Response by SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA made Nov 24 at 2017 8:03 AM

2017-11-24T08:03:57-05:00

Of course. Every great empire thinks they will last forever, and they are always wrong. We are no different.