With today's expanding social media world, what constitutes fraternization?

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 18:55:28 -0400

Is it ok for Officers to be friends with Enlisted in their chain of command? What about supervisors/supervisees?

Response by SGT Edward Wilcox made Jun 26 at 2016 7:03 PM

SGT Edward Wilcox — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 19:03:20 -0400

I don't think social media would constitute fraternization. I have been friends with subordinates on Facebook. I find it helps me keep track of how they are doing, and is another communication line I can use during the month. I don't comment on their posts, and don't expect them to comment on mine.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Jun 26 at 2016 7:07 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 19:07:12 -0400

Good Query, Glad I don't have to Navigate those Waters being retired.

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Jun 26 at 2016 7:11 PM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 19:11:22 -0400

That's a great question Capt Private RallyPoint Member! Honestly, I never really gave the topic much thought.

I would surmise, much like anything else in DoD Land, as long as there are no issues, no issues will be found. I guess it's sort of like an enlisted sitting down in the CO's office and having a cup of coffee while "shooting the sh!t". So long as no lines are crossed, everyone should be good to go.

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2016 7:20 PM

CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 19:20:10 -0400

Keeping it professional at all times is key. This platform offers a General grade officer to speak directly with a Private about real issues. That is awesome and it is not fraternization. It's a miracle of technology and both individuals are better off for it.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2016 7:59 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 19:59:59 -0400

1sgt has entire company on FB. It can be used as a valuable tool to keep checks on soldiers and as an avenue of contact.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2016 9:19 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 21:19:41 -0400

As mentioned I find social media a useful tool in keeping track of my Marines. It lets me know how they are doing. Other than keeping a watchful eye I do not partake in their posts nor do they react to mine.
Since I am overseas it is also a great means of keeping in contact with my marines when they go state side and no longer have a phone. That way they have a way to reach me if something happens and I have a way to reach them.
Utilizing it in this means is in no way fraternization, I would advise not to indulge any further beyond the above mentioned.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2016 9:52 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 21:52:58 -0400

I personally don't have any of the sailors in my shop on Facebook because I don't wanna see if they post something about the shop or what's going on with their personal lives. U do care about their well being but I don't wanna see them posting something their mad about from work. That just adds a whole new defree of frustration with in the work center. As for officers, I have a few but they are ones I truly want to learn from or value their opinions.

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Jun 26 at 2016 10:08 PM

SGT Jerrold Pesz — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 22:08:03 -0400

Fraternization is another thing that is night and day different from the old days. Glad that I never had to worry about today's rules.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2016 10:23 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 22:23:52 -0400

Just to be on the safe side, I don't add anyone until I or they PCS. Then I view it no different than keeping in touch on AKO or ACT. Good networking tool especially in today's Army of "it's who you know"

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2016 10:25 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 22:25:41 -0400

This is not a clear yes or no situation. AFI 36-2909 covers unprofessional relationships and fraternization. There is no statutory bar to having a subordinate as a friend, but you do begin to step into uncharted territory. If everyone conducts themselves professionally and nothing spills over impacting the mission I don't see an issue with it. The question becomes do you want to put yourself in that position as a leader?

Response by MAJ Byron Oyler made Jun 27 at 2016 2:15 AM

MAJ Byron Oyler — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 02:15:53 -0400

You need to know what written policy is and what your current command climate is. I can tell you from experience that some things will create bigger issues trying to enforce policy than focusing on other current problems. If I come to work on Monday and all the talk is about the what the 1LT and SRA did on the dance floor Saturday night, yeah it is a problem. If I show to work on Monday and hear a airman and his wife have mold growing in their newborn's bedroom, well I can tell you what the priority is if no one is talking about the 1LT and SRA. You cannot ignore policy however you cannot go wrong if taking care of people is priority.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Jun 27 at 2016 2:50 AM

Capt Seid Waddell — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 02:50:53 -0400

Capt Private RallyPoint Member, there was no social media when I was in, but fraternization was still an issue. The USAF was a lot more relaxed than the Navy though, in where they drew the line.

I had enlisted friends on the pistol team and in the Aero Club, and went scuba diving with others, and there was never a problem. I did know of a Navy Ensign however that was shunned by his fellow officers for eating a meal with the enlisted men in his unit. That seemed harsh to me, but then I was Air Force.

I think you need to have a private conversation with the 1SGT to see where the lines are drawn in your unit. His experience will inform you more accurately than the letter of the Regs, which are sometimes unclear.

Response by CPT Mark Gonzalez made Jun 27 at 2016 6:17 AM

CPT Mark Gonzalez — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 06:17:23 -0400

By itself no it is not fraternization, but I've seen it go two very different ways.
1. A commander sees a comment by his Soldier that is alarming. The commander uses the support channel and is able to intervene and get the Soldier help and it is stopped at the point of a suicidal ideation, so maybe saved a life or maybe the individual was just asking for help.
2. An NCO was sending sexually suggestive messages to a Soldier. Soldier reported it and the NCO's career is over. Very easy to print a message off and this NCO (now separated) was very dumb.

So social media can be a good thing or bad. All in how it is used, but if you cannot control yourself do not put yourself in a position to make a mistake.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2016 6:52 AM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 06:52:06 -0400

This is a touchy issue, and it's not one that I think has a clear-cut answer...unless of course there's a command policy. I don't ask my subordinates to connect with me on social media. If they feel like they would like to connect with me, I will connect with them. And I have connected with my supervisors on social media...I've got nothing to hide.

Response by SGT David T. made Jun 27 at 2016 8:28 AM

SGT David T. — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 08:28:02 -0400

It depends. A good leader should be in touch with their subordinates. So it all depends on the relationship itself. I would caution against compelling them to "friend" you though.

Response by COL Vincent Stoneking made Jun 27 at 2016 9:54 AM

COL Vincent Stoneking — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 09:54:10 -0400

I would not cross the O/E divide with Soldiers in my current unit. Once we are in different units, I would be (and am) social media (and IRL) friends with many former subordinates. I would likely be much less prone to do so were I active component.

Especially for Junior Officers, I would advise extreme caution. There is a large component of not yet knowing what all the land mines are and difficulty in knowing what is appropriate to share.

I am happy to say that I am FB friends with roughly half of my first Armor platoon from 21 years ago.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Jun 27 at 2016 9:59 AM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 09:59:58 -0400

Personally, I see no issue with it as long as the posts between each other remain professional. I've always looked at it from the perspective of the SNCO/Officer keeping an eye on their Junior troops. An easy way to know if there are problems at home is to know what your troops are posting on social media. But like I said, as long as it remains professional, I wouldn't consider it fraternization.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2016 8:41 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 20:41:31 -0400

It's best avoided, whether it's fraternization or not. There are valid uses to use social media with your subordinates, though. Just set up a professional Facebook/other social media accounts, and keep your personal details to your personal accounts (away from your subordinates!)

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2016 10:43 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 22:43:45 -0400

Lt, being friends on Facebook basically means you know each other. Sending each other public post and pics of drinking together that's a whole different think.

Here's what's important. this is especially true if you are a squadron commander or higher. I would not have some as friends and not others. I can lead to a perception of favoritism. I tend to keep my FB private and my friends list as well.

Response by SSG Mark Franzen made Jun 28 at 2016 12:20 AM

SSG Mark Franzen — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 00:20:33 -0400

THERE SHOULD NOT BEING ANY FRATENIZATION ON WORK OR AFTER WORK THAT WAY IT WAS WHEN I WAS IN 42 YRS AGO.

Response by 1st Lt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2016 2:34 PM

1st Lt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 14:34:05 -0400

I think it depends on several factors; namely, how active you are on social media (including what you post), and whether or not they feel there is an advantage to having friended/connected you above that of staying well informed.

For example, if you are the type of individual that airs your dirty laundry on social media, don't connect with them. They don't need to know that side of you. Likewise, if they feel there will be special treatment afforded them by connecting with you: don't.

I think it's a personal decision with no standard right or wrong answer and is entirely situationally dependant. Another example would be to befriend the NCOs but maintain the professional relationship with them.

Personally, I friended those under me in my chain of command as well as the NCOs. NCOs for logistical communication and the others so I can be aware of anything in their life I might need to be aware of.

Response by SPC Jason Kane made Jun 28 at 2016 7:11 PM

SPC Jason Kane — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 19:11:02 -0400

Jmpo, being friends with your CoC is one thing. It bonds you closers as a family, as a unit, a brotherhood. That personal connection helps you to fight harder for that person and brings a greater respect. But also knowing there is a time and place for that friendship. If they are your superior and give you an order, you do it. But to have an actual relationship, its a no-go. Conflict of interest.

Response by SSgt Banditt Raccoon made Aug 7 at 2016 4:57 PM

SSgt Banditt Raccoon — Sun, 07 Aug 2016 16:57:14 -0400

I think it would be fine in a "1 up 1 down" in grade setting. E4 can be friends with E5, E6 with E7 and maybe 2 depending on maturity levels. But not e4 with e8 and definitely not mixing officers and enlisted.

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Aug 7 at 2016 5:30 PM

Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen — Sun, 07 Aug 2016 17:30:24 -0400

Great question. I think everyone needs to be aware that there is a line that should not be crossed. Years (many) ago the wife of the gunner on our crew was our babysitter. Does this mean our families were close; of course it did, but our relationship was on a professional basis even though technically I was in his chain of command. To think that you can't be friends with an enlisted service member if you are an officer and vice versa it completely crazy. Social media doesn't change that concept. I'm connected with both enlisted and officers on RP, is that fraternization?

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2016 8:57 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 08:57:15 -0400

I'm an enlisted but the officers in my chain of command have like a code that they aren't supposed to hang out with us. They can take us in runs but they aren't really supposed to hang out with us