Writing your own evaluation (NCOER/OER)? Is it really THAT bad?

SGM Matthew Quick — Tue, 31 Dec 2013 10:55:10 -0500

As long as your rater/senior rater agree with it (by digitally signing it), why do some feel it's 'taboo' to write your own evaluation?<br><br>Here's some (hypothetical) reasoning:<br><br>Rater takes criticism personally - When we sit down to discuss my evaluation, I point out misspellings or grammatical inaccuracies; I don't want this held against me during a promotion board, but my senior rater takes this personally and gets upset.<br><br>It's worked this far, why change it? - I've been promoted on a previous centralized promotion board (or two) and I've read all the promotion board AARs to keep myself current on what's being looked at as higher importance.<br><br>Too Busy - My rater is too busy or I don't want to be a burden.  I think it's my career and I feel a certain obligation to 'write it up' for my senior rater for review it and provide all necessary documentation to justify the quantifiable ratings.<br><br>Not an articulate writer - I'm a much better writer than my senior rater.  I have a degree in English and my senior rater doesn't have a degree.  I'm not looking to use fancy words, just words that appear on an educated level greater than high school.<br>

Response by SFC James Baber made Dec 31 at 2013 10:59 AM

SFC James Baber — Tue, 31 Dec 2013 10:59:02 -0500

I think the 1st thought by many would be the personal bias one would have for themselves in their own assessment.

While I agree with some of your other points, I think the integrity of the NCOER would be invalid since it was not a true assessment and write up done by the rater.

And if everyone did it, their would be nothing but walk on water NCOs in the military.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Dec 31 at 2013 11:03 AM

SSG Robert Burns — Tue, 31 Dec 2013 11:03:16 -0500

I think there's a fine line between writing your own NCOER and assisting in writing your NCOER.  If used correctly the NCO Support form that you go over with your rater should be very close to the end product of your NCOER.  You go over that form together.<div>But writing it completely on your own?  I don't think so.  When your career is at stake who is going to give themselves a needs improvement or Army Values no?  If your rater is too lazy to write your NCOER then they are also probably incapable of accurately assessing what it is that you wrote in the first place.  Unless it's completely ridiculous they almost have no choice to agree with you.</div>

Response by CMC Robert Young made Dec 31 at 2013 12:10 PM

CMC Robert Young — Tue, 31 Dec 2013 12:10:20 -0500

<p>The USCG requires member to furnish bullets prior to rating time to ensure that the rater has a complete picture of the previous cycle. That said, I have command authority access to the HR computer system and have completed my entire EER forwarding the completed document to my supervisor on a number of occasions. I share the same advantage you mention in that I have developed a talent for writing, and take the time to develop significant supporting information to justify my evaluation. To date, all of my supervisors have appreciated the extra effort, and in two cases during the last five years they have actually raised my evaluation numbers above what I submitted. </p><p><br></p><p>As long as there are checks and balances to ensure that somebody isn't getting over on the system, it can be a good thing. I encourage my subordinates who have command access to the HR computer system to complete their own EERs and forward them to me. It's a great mentoring tool for when they are required to assume the role of rater.</p>

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2013 12:13 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Dec 2013 12:13:39 -0500

MSG(P) Quick,

If the rater/senior rater doesn't know how to convey the intended message to the board in an effective manner, then I personally believe it becomes the individual responsibility to help the rater/senior rater achieve "YOUR" desired results (maybe not all, but close to it). It is your career, so OWN it, is how I see it. I'm all for a draft write-up in addition to the support form. I am now in the process of training my junior Commissioned Officers on how to effectively annotate senior rater comments, especially for their Senior NCOs. For example, I am so sick of seeing generic bullets for our OUTSTANDING Senior NCOs and some may believe this is considered to be a good write up, but it's not in my humble opinion.

o promote to Master Sergeant ahead of peers

o send to First Sergeant course now

o assign as a First Sergeant immediately

o unlimited potential for increased responsibility

Now how many Senior NCOs are receiving evaluations as such based on the aforementioned?
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This is one example of a write up that I have done for my Senior NCO and they are all "different" form one another! I focus on the next promotion (short term), schooling, duty position, ranking amongst peers, and potential for future service (long term). By the way, this individual was promoted--first look.

o select for Master Sergeant in secondary zone; groom now for Sergeant Major

o send to First Sergeant course at earliest opportunity

o ready now to lead a Company of 200+ Soldiers, NCOs & Officers; must assign immediately

o leadership ranks in the top 2% amongst 91CMF's I have senior rated; he is #1 of 14

o possesses superior potential; clearly a future Command Sergeant Major

So if you have a great relationship with your rater/senior rater, and you walk on water in the organization then write your own and turn it in and they will be glad to receive your "working copy". Just my two cents MSG(P) Quick. Thank you for the post.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2013 12:29 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Dec 2013 12:29:10 -0500

Part of leadership is "Leader Development". What kind of example are we, as leaders, setting if you do not meet your responsability.

I have asked my soldiers to "hand-jam" an NCOER, but this is only for my reference. I am not perfect and could have missed a significant accomplishment of the soldier, that can greatly impact how the evaluation is completed.

It is my responsability to present my evaluation to my soldier, if the soldier takes it personnally or the counseling session becomes difficult, don't be a leader, that is what we do. Interpersonal Communication Skills are just as important as the evaluation, again you are teaching, mentoring and coaching your soldiers through your action in that counseling session.

I hated recieveing an NCOER that if you took my name off of it, you might not know who it referenced. NCOERs are a tool to help build better leaders and 'weed' out those that should not lead.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2013 12:31 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Dec 2013 12:31:58 -0500

You've brought up very key points SGM Quick, some raters just don't know how to write and how this effects a rated soldiers chances at promotion. I always draft my own and give it to my Rater with here you go, please review and make the changes as you see fit. This approach has worked before and has had success. Now, if I have a Rater or Senior Rater that wants to do it great! I've had plenty of conversations with the Colonel where I pointed out his comments and made my recommendations and that approach worked as well. It truly depends on the rating chain.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2013 1:10 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Dec 2013 13:10:28 -0500

I personally do not care if I upset anyone when it comes to making sure my NCOER is squared away. It is a direct reflection of you so your rater shouldn't be upset if you correct their grammatical errors or make spelling corrections. I don't believe its criticism when my NCOs point out something that I made a mistake on. It just takes a little bit of tact. It goes along with another discussion with on the spot corrections. Its the same thing just use professionalism and everything should be fine. If someone gets butthurt then who cares.

I agree with SFC Baber, we would have way to many 'stellar' NCOs running around here with a bunch of BS bullets for things they didn't do.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2013 11:36 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 Dec 2013 23:36:32 -0500

I've done it both ways. I actually have a hard time writing my own. I get writers block when I'm trying to write mine.

Response by LTC Jason Bartlett made Jan 2 at 2014 10:08 AM

LTC Jason Bartlett — Thu, 02 Jan 2014 10:08:02 -0500

Writing your own NCOER is like grading your own APFT.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2014 10:15 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jan 2014 10:15:56 -0500

MSG Quick,

Here are my two cents; I have written both my own NCOER ad OERs. I have never (I mean never) let one of my subordinates write their own evaluations. Why? Because if you really care as a leader, then you counsel and write their reports. Being too busy is a cop-out. That's like saying your too busy to do PT? It is part of your duties and the Military expects it's leaders to accomplish all parts of their duties. I shut my door and tell my Soldiers not to disturb me for one hour when I am writing an eval. If you conducted the counseling (1 hour every quarter, really? Is that time consuming?) then the report is easy to write. It also helps the ratee better understand how to write and at times even teaches some seniors how to write. In other words it is an opportunity to learn and develop skills that are critical (writing and communication skills). I don't think an NCO or new officer should be learning how to write a report while writing their own.

To me this is just lazy. I don't think it is bad if the rated person provides their rater a word doc with recommended comments or accomplishments. (I usually do this as a Sr. Rater. Since I don't know all the best jobs my subordinates should hold next, so I welcome suggestions).

Now my last eval I wrote myself. My rater had trouble "starting" any kind of writing, but he was an excellent editor. You could hand him an evaluation and get a completely different product back.

We, as leaders, should not be afraid to look our people in the eye and say "Hey bud, you're missing the mark" and if we are counseling like we are supposed to this is never an issue. No excuse not to counsel. Thanks to technology I've been able to counsel my Soldiers over VTC. Just my thoughts.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jan 2 at 2014 10:27 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Thu, 02 Jan 2014 10:27:07 -0500

<p>"Not an articulate writer - I'm a much better writer than my senior rater. I have a degree in English and my senior rater doesn't have a degree. I'm not looking to use fancy words, just words that appear on an educated level greater than high school."</p><p>...</p><p> </p><p>This one would be why I generally write my own. My degree is not in English, but most of the time, the awards and NCOER's I see being written up by junior and senior NCO's are ATROCIOUS. It would be foolish of me to have someone else write my NCOER, knowing full well that the product will be sub par. They can address content all they like of course, but the actual structure and formatting I'll take care of. NCOER's are too important for amateur hour...</p>

Response by LTC Jason Strickland made Jan 2 at 2014 10:27 AM

LTC Jason Strickland — Thu, 02 Jan 2014 10:27:32 -0500

It's too bad that our leaders - at whatever level and in whatever branch - don't take the time to make performance appraisals and leader development a priority. One of the foundational principles of our military is that we develop leaders. If a leader doesn't make it a priority to put leader development in writing (aka an OER, EPR, appraisal, etc.), then it's just lip service - and hypocritical!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2014 10:30 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jan 2014 10:30:53 -0500

This is my opinion on writing your own NCOER/OER. I have had
to do this several times; I would then have to go outside of my rating scheme to
peers and other PSGs that knew what type of leader I was. I had to do this because
how can you honestly see your faults that you have made and where you need to
pick your game up? This point was made by someone in a earlier comment it is
like grading your own APFT. Yes some of us have the integrity to rate ourselves
the way we feel we need to be, but again how do we see where we need to
improve?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2014 12:26 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jan 2014 12:26:54 -0500

In a perfect world people should not write their own NCOERs because it is supposed to be an assessment of their performance and potential. It does not matter how honest anyone think they are, they will never write an accurate evaluation for two reasons. 1- You don't want to jeopardize your own career by not making yourself look as good as you can and 2- You really don't want to write an evaluation so good that would look like you made the whole thing up.

The main problem I see is that raters do not take the time to conduct an initial counseling to tell the rated NCO what is expected of him/her. The raters are also failing at conducting quarterly counselings. These counselings are supposed to tell the rated NCO what areas he/she needs to improve on so when its time for the NCO to sign his/her NCOER, it doesn't come as a surprise to them.

We as leaders need to start doing our jobs. I will never allow any of my NCOs write their own NCOERs, that is my job not theirs. NCOs write their own evaluations because their leadership is or has failed them and this will continue until leaders start doing their jobs.

So to answer your question MSG(P) Quick, I don't think it's a bad thing. Those NCOs that write their own evaluations are the ones that see the lack of leadership and are taking care of their own careers.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2014 12:56 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jan 2014 12:56:47 -0500

Funny you should mention that. Happens with OERs also. I was asked point blank, to write my own OER. Thought it was not appropriate and told the officer so. Told him to just cut and paste my OER support form and change up words. Asked for a new rater after that.

You are right SGT Robredo they are being lazy and skipping out on their responsibility to take care of another soldier.

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Jan 9 at 2014 1:30 PM

CW2 Joseph Evans — Thu, 09 Jan 2014 13:30:43 -0500

Relax and roll with it. It can be one of the best advantages you get.

Get input from peers, ask your rater for a few of his, etc to put together ideas. Get with the PSG or 1SG after your rough draft. Go to sites like NCOER.com for the word smithing. The integrity check is there since your rater still has to sign it and will call BS and make you rewrite if he disagrees with something.

Lets face it, you may not want him writing it... not everyone has a talent with words and if he's lazy enough to tell you to do it, he isn't going to put the effort into a good one if you insist.

If your Rater and Senior rater sign it, its fair.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2014 1:46 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jan 2014 13:46:34 -0500

I don’t think you should write your own NCOER. This is a
review of how you are doing. How can you effectively gage how your leaders
think you are doing? Your senior rater and reviewer have to look at it as well
so there is little chance you will try to take credit for things you have not
done. It is your rater’s responsibility to write your NCOER and if they need
help with the wording, they can use the resources out there. I also believe that you can get practice
without doing your own report. Senior NCOs are there to mentor junior NCOs. I
would not have my soldiers counseling themselves.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2014 3:03 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jan 2014 15:03:19 -0500

I don't mind writing mine at all! Like CW2 Evans said in his comments, you might not even WANT your rater to do it. I've had raters who misspell everything and used street lingo. I've also had raters who didn't counsel me throughout the year and left stuff off the NCOER that I wanted on there. I wouldn't worry about the integrity check as much as I would the "Look in the Mirror" check. If you can't write your own evaluation and justify a 1/1 "Among the Best", then you might have some other issues to address!

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2014 10:10 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jan 2014 22:10:22 -0500

Writing your own evaluation is removing the counseling responsibility that the rater owes to the Soldier. I believe that an evaluation should have a perfect blend of rater and rated Soldier during the building process. This allows the rated Soldier to build an evaluation report that has their input and the rater's input. If done right you can build what you have done and what your rater has seen. Blend the 2 together and chances are you will have one hell of an evaluation.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2014 12:30 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Jan 2014 00:30:00 -0500

When you are in a toxic leadership environment, you would be lucky to write your own - so as to have something worthwhile possibly make it through.

Most of the time I was in the service, my EPR's would be done way past their due date each year and there were no quarterly reviews being done on me either (so I never knew what to expect each year on my EPR - I could think everything was good and have something crazy on the yearly EPR).

I never got my 2012 EPR or a final EPR for 2013 before I retired - but at least I always made sure my personnel I supervisved got their quarterly reviews and EPR's on time each year.

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made Jan 15 at 2014 7:31 AM

1SG Michael Blount — Wed, 15 Jan 2014 07:31:02 -0500

I've actually found writing one's own NCOER a useful tool in comparing what YOU think you did vs what your Cdr thinks you did. I've used this tool a couple times on my subordinates and found they're harder on themselves than I would have been (I'm the bark, but I will bite to keep people honest).

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2014 3:17 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Feb 2014 15:17:31 -0500

I believe that writing your own NCOER would make it bias, and what happens if one is terrible at writing an NCOER but a great Soldier vs a terrible soldier that can write a great NCOER. I know that it always boils down to the raters agreeing on what has made it to the document, but if you write your own you may not realize your own deficiencies or choose to omit them.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2014 2:53 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 01 Mar 2014 14:53:25 -0500

You should not have to write your own NCOER. It is the raters responsibility to do so. However, more often than not, they fail to do so in a timely manner, NCOs "fill in" the admin data with a "few" suggested bullets nearly completing it. Those raters are also being rated and if they cannot properly conduct the counseling and ratings for their personnel, then it should reflect. And when you do it for them, it does not allow them to go through the process and learn to do it properly. They will never learn to effectively write an eval if they are taken out of the process.

Not saying it still wont happen, it just should not be your responsibility to do it.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2014 2:57 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 01 Mar 2014 14:57:54 -0500

I think keeping a running record of what happens in your rating period helps the rater and the rated NCO or Officer to better capture an honest picture of what truly happened. I do this for myself because nobody else is going to be my best advocate except for myself. Plus, I think it shows your rater that you really care about what goes on your OER/NCOER.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2014 3:12 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 01 Mar 2014 15:12:44 -0500

MSG (P) Quick,

I beg to differ, that is why they created the

NCOER counseling and support form. You input
what you want to see on your NCOER. Now does this form actually get used, not really.
I see it more on the officer side where they use their support fort, APFT Card
to evaluate their APFT score and height and weight. Then sometimes they will
ask for a Military Biography and/or most recent NCOER to see what kind of NCOER
they are. I feel that using an old NCOER to evaluate an NCO is wrong, because
what’s to say the old rater hate this particular NCO or they were buddies and
chalked him up to be the best NCO in the army. As a Rater I feel you should
know your Soldier and be able to talk about him as if he was your brother. Now
in the reserves it’s hard, because sometimes you see this Soldier once a month
and that’s it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2014 3:47 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 01 Mar 2014 15:47:41 -0500

I dont know about all of you but I do write me NCOERs. Everything I do writes my NCOER. Every Soldier I take care of writes my NCOERs. The more I take care of my Soldiers the more they take care of me and my NCOERs reflect.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2014 10:36 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 01 Mar 2014 22:36:20 -0500

I remember being a brand new "buck" and ahead of my first annual being told by my first line, "Write me your NCOER, I want it by next week." I had no idea where to even start. I didn't have the opportunity to ask for clarification due to field time, so I just filled in the admin data and asked what else I could do, on the day he wanted it. I listened to 10 minutes of grousing about how it was my career, and I needed to take control of it. After asking for help, I felt it was given grudgingly. I don't know what else I could have done four evaluations ago...I've wised up since then, and am much better at writing them, but I still feel like I'm being cheated of an honest assessment when I do it.

Response by SSG Dave Rogers made Mar 2 at 2014 3:47 PM

SSG Dave Rogers — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 15:47:58 -0500

If your rater is too busy, too easily angered that you find a mistake in the form, or feels it is a burden than they should not be a leader.

I have not always liked everything my rater has put in my NCOER, maybe I felt that it was a little lacking in some ways, but it is not the raters fault, it is the system. A few leaders I had in my time were ahead of the game, they would write my NCOER, and also have me write one, they would compare them, than talk about them. They would ask me why I felt I deserved a certain rating or did not deserve something else. This was not only for me to get a true sense of what I or they thought of my work, but to help me learn the process for when I started giving NCOER's to others.

But I will say this, if your NCOER is lacking it may not be the rater, you just may not be that high speed, if you want to insure you get a good eval do a great job. Dont just do what is asked of you, find ways to make the unit better, help the unit get good inspections, talk to your leader about ways you can improve as a soldier and a leader, take courses, improve your education, keep your area neat and organized.. in other words set the example for others to follow, and believe me if your rater is lacking someone in your command will notice.

Response by 1SG Jeffery Bertram made Mar 2 at 2014 5:52 PM

1SG Jeffery Bertram — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 17:52:06 -0500

In a perfect world all raters would diligently do their jobs on time and without prejudice or bias, but we don't live in a perfect world. We live in a world where there are few ethical and honest leaders. The reality is that we have cut staffing to the bone and put more and more responsibility on the few that remain. People are busting their ass to keep their heads above water so many NCOER s don't get done on time and if you care about your own career you are going to write a shell and present it to your rater to complete it. That's just how it gets done these days, although I do still write NCOERs for my Soldiers I know many others who don't.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2014 3:57 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Apr 2014 15:57:08 -0400

I review all of my bullets before my NCOER gets sent off to the senior rater. I want to make sure all of my accomplishments are annotated properly, grammar is correct, etc. You can sit back and take a hands off approach if you want to, but don't come back crying about how poorly your NCOER was written after the fact.

Response by SPC Charles Brown made Apr 1 at 2014 4:23 PM

SPC Charles Brown — Tue, 01 Apr 2014 16:23:04 -0400

I don't believe that writing your own NCOER would be fair. I can understand checking it over for mistakes in grammar, punctuation, and missing credentials, but writing your own would allow some to make themselves sound better than they may actually be. No offense intended, but this could actually happen, and probably would in some cases. This is my opinion and may not agree with others and for that I apologize.

Response by SSG Rafael Rodriguez made Apr 2 at 2014 12:36 PM

SSG Rafael Rodriguez — Wed, 02 Apr 2014 12:36:43 -0400

Just to recap my previous comment, i do agree that senior raters are supposed to write your NCOER but true, they "may miss something" so there is your time to bring up counseling forms, awards and other documentation that supports those bullets. For Gods sake, use bullets that are original, not those generic ones. I sometimes though that we were told to make our own NCOERs because we were being "trained" to do so, sort of a NCODP. Set your Soldiers for success, not for failure, they are a reflection of you, the senior NCO.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2014 6:38 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Apr 2014 18:38:22 -0400

I have a problem with it because first and foremost, you wouldn't ask a Soldier, E4 and below to write their own monthly counseling. If any one who does that is just a lazy leader in my book. And the second reason I have a problem with it is, every time the NCOER is viewed by CSM, he wants explanations on why you deserve what you get and the individual who is suppose to do the NCOER can't give that CSM the reason correctly, only the writer can with detailed explanation.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2014 8:12 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Apr 2014 20:12:11 -0400

I have written my own in the past; I now refuse to write my own. My rater should know all of my accomplishments. Though there are a few that I feel I didn't get what I thought I deserved, I took it as an opportunity to do better for my Soldiers. I have always written a first draft, then sit down and having long discussions regarding the past years performance and articulating the accomplishments in a way that for a good Soldier makes that Soldier feel good about the evaluation (counseling session). Yes, the eval is what may or may not be looked at for promotion; however, my feeling is that the NCOER is for the Soldier. Nothing demotivates a Soldier than having a leader that doesn't care or know what that Soldier did over the past year. Writing an NCOER should be difficult and time-consuming because the Soldier should be worth the effort and time.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2014 9:28 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Apr 2014 09:28:41 -0400

It has been mentioned to me, but rest assured... It DID NOT happen.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2014 9:33 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Apr 2014 09:33:25 -0400

OER no, award yes and I refused.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Apr 3 at 2014 9:37 AM

SFC William Swartz Jr — Thu, 03 Apr 2014 09:37:03 -0400

Yes to both..had to write my own PCS award, and AAM, when I left Recruiting duty back in '98; Company Commander didn't even want to submit one, because I wasn't a stellar recruiter, station commander (was acting 1SG) had me write one up and he "pushed" it through told the commander it's the least I deserved for surviving the 3-years of hell and leaving with the same rank. Lol...

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Apr 3 at 2014 9:38 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Thu, 03 Apr 2014 09:38:38 -0400

Of course. I imagine it's fairly common.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2014 10:16 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Apr 2014 10:16:50 -0400

I've had to write the citation for my award once the recommendation was approved. Also have had to write my evaluations many-a-time.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2014 10:21 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Apr 2014 10:21:41 -0400

Sorry... what is NCOER?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2014 10:39 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Apr 2014 10:39:48 -0400

I wrote every single NCOER and gave them to my rater for input.  There was some back and forth but basically my words were the ones that created the base.  You should be actively involved in your NCOER, it's your career after-all.  You should also provide suggested senior rater comments in the email.  <div><br></div><div>As far as awards - no.  </div>

Response by SFC Kayla Sondrol made Apr 3 at 2014 11:32 AM

SFC Kayla Sondrol — Thu, 03 Apr 2014 11:32:06 -0400

Yes for the E4 Eval and NCOER, and surprisingly for my entire 9 years of service I've never been recommended for an award either. Majority of the NCOs I ever had were beyond lazy and never even bothered to write up supporting documentation in order to supplement to get one. I try and keep track of all the over the top stuff I do, but every time I bring it up to my section leader, he just blows it off. Being your own advocate on this stuff doesn't always seem to work, even if you do the work for them. And since I am on permanent profile for a severe injury, I can't get points in PT for promotion. And I would rather see if I can supplement some points with awards in order to be able to compete with everyone else. So far my career is stagnant due to the above issues.

Response by SFC James Baber made Apr 3 at 2014 12:53 PM

SFC James Baber — Thu, 03 Apr 2014 12:53:19 -0400

I wrote my last 5 PCS awards, my retirement award, and a few impact awards.

As far as NCOER's, I probably did the base for about 5-6 of them, all annuals, and maybe 2-3 COR, and 1 complete the record.

Not saying it should be the norm, but many times it is becoming that way with many leaders stating they are too busy to do it over the past decade or so.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2014 2:59 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Apr 2014 14:59:29 -0400

More times than I can count.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2014 5:43 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Apr 2014 17:43:43 -0400

I keep a running NCOER and update it as I do things during my rating period. I believe that only you really know what you have accomplished over that time. I then present it to my rater. It is my raters options to write new bulletes or use what I have given them. Most of the time it becomes a colaberation. Overall, yes I have taken an active role in writing my NCOERs. It is a reflection of my carreer and if I do not take an active role it may hurt me in the long run. I have seen NCOs that do not take and active role in their NCOERs and get ones that they are not happy with.

On the award. I had to write my own MOVSM (volunteer award). I had worked hard volunteering and believed I deserved it for all my hard work. It was not important to my NCO at the time. He didnt want to write it up and basically told me if I wanted the award to write it up myself. So I sure did that, cause it was important to me.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2014 7:18 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Apr 2014 19:18:00 -0400

Yes. I wrote my deployment award and I hated that I had to do it. But I took it as an opportunity to figure out how to write an award for when I became an NCO (I was a Specialist at the time) so the Soldiers I'm responsible for never have to.

Response by SFC Derrick Hardison made Apr 3 at 2014 8:22 PM

SFC Derrick Hardison — Thu, 03 Apr 2014 20:22:50 -0400

Of course! I was asked to do it and I also took it upon myself to do it since I was rarely counseled quarterly during my career.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2014 8:23 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Apr 2014 20:23:20 -0400

I have been actively involved with my NCOER since becoming an NCO. I didn't do much other than provide information in what I had accomplished In the past year. I help with formatting and it's been a joint effort between my rater, and myself. But I have also drafted a rough working copy and provided it to my rater to help then recall what had transpired throughout the year. I will admit that if support forms were used like they should be, and quarterly counselings were done like they should be, this wouldn't be necessary.

I refuse to write my own awards. I don't feel right about it. I've been told to several times, but never have. Might explain why I don't have bookoos of awards.... But the ones I have mean a lot because the person who submitted them felt I was deserving.

Response by MSG Jacqueline Case made Apr 3 at 2014 9:20 PM

MSG Jacqueline Case — Thu, 03 Apr 2014 21:20:22 -0400

Isn't that the norm? I can recall three occasions that i didn't have to write my own NCOER.

Response by SSG Jason Deters made Apr 4 at 2014 5:19 PM

SSG Jason Deters — Fri, 04 Apr 2014 17:19:43 -0400

My very first NCOER was written by myself. My rater handed me a blank NCOER with my admin data filled in and told me: "Here's your NCOER. Let me know when it is completed." I must have looked at him like he had 3 heads because he told me that I heard him correctly and that I knew better than anyone what I had accomplished or what I had failed at. I knew what goals I had met and what goals still needed work. He added that he too also knew what I had done or hadn't done and what I wrote down had damn sure better match what he had in his records. I completed my NCOER and handed it to him and he returned it for correction. It seems that I evaluated my self as "success" in two areas where he felt I should have marked "Excellence".

This was a development strategy. He told me that if I ever expected to objectively rate subordinates later in my career I would first have to learn to objectively rate myself.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2014 1:49 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 05 Apr 2014 01:49:08 -0400

I have help write my NCOER with bullets or just input, however I left it to my rater to make all final decissions.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Apr 5 at 2014 10:10 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Sat, 05 Apr 2014 22:10:38 -0400

Yep, doesn't everybody? No I get you point SFC Matthew B. and yes it is unfortunate but there are plenty of reasons and excuses. I worked in a very specialized field and while I worked with my fellow CTs I may have been the only CTO so who better to know exactly what I do. How could my CTA (Admin) really write my MSA for 21 years of service when he had only been with me the last 3 years before I retired, of course I had to put the meat in it but I think you have a very valid point that leaders should be more aware of what their troops do and have the Administrative Skills to present it well on Paper.

Response by MSG Jose Colon made Apr 20 at 2014 12:48 AM

MSG Jose Colon — Sun, 20 Apr 2014 00:48:02 -0400

In a word, NO. But, if it is not going to happen, and or if your rater cannot spell or put together one coherent sentence, you will be better off writing your own. Remember, he or she is your rater, not the other way around. Otherwise, you could give them a needs improvement on "Competence".

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2014 7:25 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Jun 2014 19:25:40 -0400

With the new OER system it locks you out of the evaluation so that you cannot (from your own login) write your own evaluation. So either you would have to write it and they cut and paste it or have to do it from the rater's computer.

It should be interesting to see how long this works and if the NCOER system will follow suit.

Response by MSgt Ediberto L. made Jun 1 at 2014 9:59 PM

MSgt Ediberto L. — Sun, 01 Jun 2014 21:59:23 -0400

MSgt Quick,

I see you are currently stationed at Ft Bliss Tx. That was my last duty station before leaving the Army in Jan 2001. I was assigned to D Battery, 2-43, 108th BDE, HQ Plt. Worked as a 63B in the motorpool.

You know, in my personal experience as an enlisted leader, Army and Air Force, enlisted evaluation reports are a pain to complete no matter how well in advance you have started or how well you may feel you have written them. Whether the evaluation is yours or your subordinates there are people within your chain that are involved in reviewing them that will feel compelled to make some kind of recommendation before the evaluation is finally put to bed.

I don't recall if the Army was this way so please correct me if I wrong, however, in the Air Force it was against regulations to write your own EPR. It was however, a "rule of thumb" that you do and for the very reasons you stated. Busy, busy, busy. So, who better to efficiently write about all the outstanding things you have done for God and country.

In the Air FOrce, you could "contribute" and shoot your list of "at a boys"/bullets but the odds of everyone in your chain having the same writing style as you are slim to none and would for the most part ensue a back and forth match between raters until everyone but the supervisor it seemed we re happy with the outcome. :) Of course, I am speaking about my experience. Some other folks may have had the fortunate experience to only have to resubmit once due to some grammar error if that. Thoughts?

Response by SFC Rich Carey made Jun 3 at 2014 4:03 PM

SFC Rich Carey — Tue, 03 Jun 2014 16:03:24 -0400

What? Never... I hated it, because I would never give myself due credit...

Response by SSG Roderick Smith made Jul 11 at 2014 11:34 AM

SSG Roderick Smith — Fri, 11 Jul 2014 11:34:16 -0400

I have written all but my first and my most recent NCOERs. I detest it; I am that guy that takes it personally. It is the Rater's responsibility to track their Soldier's accomplishments. You'll notice that I said "accomplishments"... because no one asks an NCO to write their own Relief for Cause.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 11 at 2014 3:31 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Jul 2014 15:31:46 -0400

We as NCO's have an obligation to make the time to write our subordinates NCOER's, and counsel them properly. The time it takes to write an NCOER is on the rater. If the rater is counseling ever quarter like they should, the NCOER really writes its self.

If you as a rater have a subordinate NCO write there own NCOER, you really should consider turning in your stripes. If you are an NCO and you don't nag your rater for your counseling, and basically force them to do there DUTY, then you are just as wrong as they are.

It is your report card, and if your not being counseling how do you know were you are going wrong, or if you are on the right glide path.

Raters and Senior Raters, if the counseling is not being done and you want to give the rated NCO a bad NCOER, all I can say is good luck. You don't have a leg to stand on. Just like when you want to frag a Soldier with AR15's and it doesn't happen do to lack of counseling. Any NCO that accepts a bad NCOER with no proof, shame on you.

End state is: Do your duty, and quit being lazy.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2014 6:46 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 06:46:44 -0400

I personally feel that if I have to write my own evaluation then the rater is derelict in their duties. 90% of the time the rater and senior rater are officers who are supposed to be educated and therefore should be able to write a grammatically correct eval. In the off chance that they are not then yes, I feel it's my duty to assist in that area. If they forgot to mention key events that would improve the rating then I should also assist, but that also shows me that they failed to track my performance.
Nothing is more irritating to me than to hear a rater ask someone " what have you done"? It is our duty to track things, rough copy or draft, make notes so that come eval time we have the meat and potatoes.
How many NCO's have signed a falsified document? You know the NCOER with BS quarterly counseling dates that were never performed? That alone goes to the integrity of both rater and rated and puts the reviewer in question also for failing to verify as they are supposed to do.
Perhaps my desire to do things by the book and not be a "yes man" has prevented me from moving up as fast as others but in the end I will still have my integrity and I'm good with that.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2014 6:51 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 06:51:32 -0400

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2014 11:57 AM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 11:57:55 -0500

Well, for starters, it's illegal. At least in the Air Force.

Section 8.1.4.1.3 of AIF 36-2406 (the regulation regarding performance reports) states that the Senior Rater "Will ensure no subordinate commander/supervisor asks or allows, an
officer to draft or prepare his or her own PRF. Note: Eligible officers may provide
input."

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2015 9:34 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 Feb 2015 09:34:58 -0500

I think the evals should be collaborative. You provide a shell, what you think is needed. Let the rater edit and submit to higher. In addition to your points it gives you a chance to learn to right the evals on a person you know best and who you'll make sure gets a good/fair shake - yourself. It'll make it easier to complete the evals of your juniors later.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Mar 14 at 2019 6:50 PM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Thu, 14 Mar 2019 18:50:30 -0400

I got tired of my rater waiting until the day prior to it being due, then throwing something together with crap bullets. So I started giving my rate reminders of upcoming NCOERs... With no change. So I started scheduling hard times for NCO counselings and NCOER reviews... Which were ALL blown off or "rescheduled.". So I started just writing my own and giving it to my rater for review and tweak. I literally could not get my rater (and this was over a period of 5 years and 7 raters) to give a flying @$(# about my NCOER. I had mostly excellences, all 1/2 or 2/1, with two 1/1s. But the bullets were CRAP. Rater, senior rater, 1SG didn't care. So I started "helping" my rater by doing his job for him. Usually they tweaked significantly, but used the same basic bullets. A couple literally changed nothing. One changed almost everything - that was the one and only rater I have EVER had actually do quarterly counseling. 16 years as an NCO, one rater counseled me. There is your answer right there.