Posted on Jul 16, 2017
How the Death of a Muslim Recruit Revealed a Culture of Brutality in the Marines
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This is a long article about the hazing and eventual suicide of a Muslim Marine. I remember reading about this a while back and then i saw this on my news feed this evening. Having gone through Army Basic Training, I cannot know what Marine Corps boot camp is like but my personal feelings is this never should have happened. My step brother and his wife are Marines and I'd ask him but I havent spoken to him in 20 years! Perhaps some of our Marines can comment. SGT (Join to see) @sgt Sgt David G Duchesneau LTC Stephen F. LTC Stephen C. SP5 Mark Kuzinski SFC (Join to see) GySgt Melissa Gravila
How the Death of a Muslim Recruit Revealed a Culture of Brutality in the Marines
Posted from nytimes.com
Marines
Hazing
Suicide
Boot Camp
Religion
Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 10
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Marine Corps boot camp is far easier today than in the past. This article is much ado about nothing. Parris Island is a harsh place designed to weed out the non hackers, weak and unmotivated. If you want warriors you have to weed out the non warriors. Not everyone is cut out to be a Marine. The Marines have had recruits dying (and killing themselves) on Parris Island and San Diego for a long time. That can happen when people meet high stress they cannot deal with. That is not the goal but it is an outcome.
Nothing you face on Parris Island is going to do you more harm that may be done on a foreign battlefield somewhere in the world. The non stop whining of some about how the culture of the Marine Corps is too harsh seem not to understand our countries enemies fear us. They fear us because our culture breeds competency, harshness, deprivation and an eagerness to separate our enemy from their life.
The Marine Corps exists to win battles and vanquish the enemy not to provide college educations or great healthcare benefits or a career path for all etc. Some of that may happen but it is not the mission. With Trump in the White House and Mattis as the Secdef perhaps we can turn away from those concerned about a culture they simply do not understand but should be happy it exists.
The goal is never to have a recruit end his own life but it can happen. He may depart Parris Island/San Diego without the EGA but if he gets it he should know he earned it and that it was earned in an environment not everyone could make it through. If anyone can make it, it is not really worth having. It becomes a participation trophy.
Nothing you face on Parris Island is going to do you more harm that may be done on a foreign battlefield somewhere in the world. The non stop whining of some about how the culture of the Marine Corps is too harsh seem not to understand our countries enemies fear us. They fear us because our culture breeds competency, harshness, deprivation and an eagerness to separate our enemy from their life.
The Marine Corps exists to win battles and vanquish the enemy not to provide college educations or great healthcare benefits or a career path for all etc. Some of that may happen but it is not the mission. With Trump in the White House and Mattis as the Secdef perhaps we can turn away from those concerned about a culture they simply do not understand but should be happy it exists.
The goal is never to have a recruit end his own life but it can happen. He may depart Parris Island/San Diego without the EGA but if he gets it he should know he earned it and that it was earned in an environment not everyone could make it through. If anyone can make it, it is not really worth having. It becomes a participation trophy.
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Cpl Jeff N.
LTC David Brown - Expert Field Medical Program is a secondary school not basic training where you take raw 18-20 year olds and try to turn them into Marines. Physical training is one element, inculcating their minds with the culture, mental toughness and other attributes that will make Marines out of them is essential too. Someone going to Ranger School or SEAL School is not the equivalent of a civilian arriving at a recruit depot.
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Cpl Jeff N.
GySgt John Olson - We all know there are folks that we shake our head about how they made it through. That happens even with the very regimented screening process and the constant pressure Drill Instructors put on recruits. Because a few less that desirable folks make it through basic training doesn't mean we should let up and let more through.
The era I went through Parris Island certainly was not the most extreme I can assure you recruits were indeed manhandled at times and when some attempts failed the punishment became more extreme. No ones life was ever in jeopardy but there was not one of us that didn't believe it was. We had a recruit that filed a complaint on physical abuse at some point. All he did was make it worse for the rest of us. The DI's, in very hushed tones let us know, in no uncertain terms that turning on your platoon and your DI's was unacceptable and would be punished (while the investigation was ongoing).
We all lived, although one in the platoon did attempt suicide by drinking a bunch of Wisk which was issued to us back them. It didn't kill him but made him pretty ill. He was know as Mr Bubble from there forward. No one ever made it into a dryer or a chemical filled shower although the head was where private boxing lessons were given.
Mental toughness, being able to handling adversity cannot be done in a risk free, safe, comfortable environment. To this day, to some degree this still goes on. My son who went through Parris Island about 7 years ago had a few brushes with infamy as well.
The era I went through Parris Island certainly was not the most extreme I can assure you recruits were indeed manhandled at times and when some attempts failed the punishment became more extreme. No ones life was ever in jeopardy but there was not one of us that didn't believe it was. We had a recruit that filed a complaint on physical abuse at some point. All he did was make it worse for the rest of us. The DI's, in very hushed tones let us know, in no uncertain terms that turning on your platoon and your DI's was unacceptable and would be punished (while the investigation was ongoing).
We all lived, although one in the platoon did attempt suicide by drinking a bunch of Wisk which was issued to us back them. It didn't kill him but made him pretty ill. He was know as Mr Bubble from there forward. No one ever made it into a dryer or a chemical filled shower although the head was where private boxing lessons were given.
Mental toughness, being able to handling adversity cannot be done in a risk free, safe, comfortable environment. To this day, to some degree this still goes on. My son who went through Parris Island about 7 years ago had a few brushes with infamy as well.
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LTC David Brown
EFMB is a test for a tab. My point is that you can create a tough testing environment that will weed out people with out abuse. If there are problems with The training program the DI's should work through the chain of command to change the training process instead of abusing recruits. .
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I will probably get flamed but abuse does not equate to training. Officers need to know and understand what the subordinates are doing all the way down the chain of command. Seems like the monkeys are managing the circus. I don't like the New York Times and the author clearly doesn't understand low intensity conflict. The article does highlight failure of command to enforce doctrine. If you are doing something you don't want exposed to the light of day you are probably doing something wrong! Try putting your dog in a cloths dryer and post it on face book, let's see how that works for you. Try burning a cats feet or buttocks in bleech and post it on face book. Get drunk and beat your spouse so they can learn to take it and post it on face book. You think any of those things would fly?
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MSgt George Cater
You are correct, colonel. There is a line between training and abuse. Professionals train. Egotistic sadists (or those being forced themselves) abuse and torture calling it training. I recall one pickup brief in old 3rd Battalion where after the Bn, Co & Series Commanders said their piece and left the room, the Series Gunnery Sergeant said, "Okay, now that the Zeroes are gone, here's what we're really going to do". And this was in 1974.
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Writer claims the USMC was the smallest conventional military force, whatever "conventional" is. She is wrong the USCG is the smallest military force in the USA. Writer is a New Yorker who went to Columbia. Is it too much to ask for a little research?
Writer uses the term "White" a lot implying the Marine are racist. Far from the truth. All Marines bleed the same color blood. I served with some of the best Marines at NTC San Diego during a four month officer prep program run by the Navy. Ten CG attended.
Hazing is mentioned many times without defining it. In my nine weeks in USCG recruit training in Cape May in 1979, I recall company had two blanket parties, a few fights, a lot of people fainting, two suicide attempts (not in my company), had a ready to fire 45 pointed about two feet from my side at the range, I almost passed out doing jumping jacks with the Cape May crud (101deg fever) and one well deserved serious O-dark-thirty career counselling session by three Company Commanders.
Those totally unfamiliar with the Marines seem to think the can turn the warrior personality off/on upon demand. They also think classroom training is all that is needed to become a warrior. They have no idea what it takes to produce a 30sec news clips of combat.
I think the overuse of small units to engage the enemy will make the divide between those ignorant of the military and those in uniform wider. Feel sorry for those who take the military for granted, just like the do for local police departments.
Writer uses the term "White" a lot implying the Marine are racist. Far from the truth. All Marines bleed the same color blood. I served with some of the best Marines at NTC San Diego during a four month officer prep program run by the Navy. Ten CG attended.
Hazing is mentioned many times without defining it. In my nine weeks in USCG recruit training in Cape May in 1979, I recall company had two blanket parties, a few fights, a lot of people fainting, two suicide attempts (not in my company), had a ready to fire 45 pointed about two feet from my side at the range, I almost passed out doing jumping jacks with the Cape May crud (101deg fever) and one well deserved serious O-dark-thirty career counselling session by three Company Commanders.
Those totally unfamiliar with the Marines seem to think the can turn the warrior personality off/on upon demand. They also think classroom training is all that is needed to become a warrior. They have no idea what it takes to produce a 30sec news clips of combat.
I think the overuse of small units to engage the enemy will make the divide between those ignorant of the military and those in uniform wider. Feel sorry for those who take the military for granted, just like the do for local police departments.
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