Posted on Jul 12, 2018
Got questions about the new PT test? The sergeant major of the Army has answers.
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The details of when and how have not been worked out yet, but the Army made an historic announcement Monday with the unveiling of a new PT test to replace the long-standing Army Physical Fitness Test.
“What we know to be true, based on the amount of testing we’ve done, is it’s attainable,” Sergeant Major of the Army Dan Dailey told Army Times on Tuesday. “It’s not unrealistic.”
My comment is, how are soldiers supposed to practice these components on their own? Push-up, sit-ups and running are all individual tasks that don't require much more than a PT uniform and sneakers. The new test seems equipment and set-up heavy. How are soldiers supposed to be able to train daily for these events?
And why isn't FITNESS the main goal? If we prepare soldiers for a test, how well does that test address fitness levels required to perform optimally on the battlefield?
Anyhow, what are YOUR thoughts? Hooah!
“What we know to be true, based on the amount of testing we’ve done, is it’s attainable,” Sergeant Major of the Army Dan Dailey told Army Times on Tuesday. “It’s not unrealistic.”
My comment is, how are soldiers supposed to practice these components on their own? Push-up, sit-ups and running are all individual tasks that don't require much more than a PT uniform and sneakers. The new test seems equipment and set-up heavy. How are soldiers supposed to be able to train daily for these events?
And why isn't FITNESS the main goal? If we prepare soldiers for a test, how well does that test address fitness levels required to perform optimally on the battlefield?
Anyhow, what are YOUR thoughts? Hooah!
Got questions about the new PT test? The sergeant major of the Army has answers.
Posted from armytimes.com
APFT
Fitness
Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 4
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I've commented on this already on other posts but I don't understand why this is needed. Here's why.
#1 Are soldiers passing the APFT and still not able to perform in combat? If so, why not just raise the standards on the APFT? I've never seen someone who consistently scores 270 or above on the current APFT that couldn't make it under normal combat conditions.
#2 Like you said, this is equipment heavy. How will out Guard and Reserve soldiers train at home?
#3 Soldiers who show up not ready for this test could get hurt taking it. Those same soldiers showing up not ready to take the APFT will simply fail the test.
#4 The APFT (or any test) does not need to simulate combat per se. Think of the NFL combine. It's just an assessment of fitness that "should" translate to success on the field. Have you ever seen a football player bench pressing 225 pounds multiple times in a game? Nope. But they do it in the combine. Why? Because if you can push that much weight up 20 or 30 times (along with other stuff) they feel comfortable that you can play this game. But it's not certain they can play at that level despite their combine results.
My recommendation. Keep the APFT as it is with the addition of pull-ups (sorry, former Marine here). Increase the standards of what is needed to pass it. Maybe even base it on what MOS you can have.
#1 Are soldiers passing the APFT and still not able to perform in combat? If so, why not just raise the standards on the APFT? I've never seen someone who consistently scores 270 or above on the current APFT that couldn't make it under normal combat conditions.
#2 Like you said, this is equipment heavy. How will out Guard and Reserve soldiers train at home?
#3 Soldiers who show up not ready for this test could get hurt taking it. Those same soldiers showing up not ready to take the APFT will simply fail the test.
#4 The APFT (or any test) does not need to simulate combat per se. Think of the NFL combine. It's just an assessment of fitness that "should" translate to success on the field. Have you ever seen a football player bench pressing 225 pounds multiple times in a game? Nope. But they do it in the combine. Why? Because if you can push that much weight up 20 or 30 times (along with other stuff) they feel comfortable that you can play this game. But it's not certain they can play at that level despite their combine results.
My recommendation. Keep the APFT as it is with the addition of pull-ups (sorry, former Marine here). Increase the standards of what is needed to pass it. Maybe even base it on what MOS you can have.
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SGT (Join to see)
I have to disagree with most of it.
#1. The APFT doesn’t test much of anything. It’s not really a good test of fitness, and it’s not really a good test of combat fitness, either. I’ve seen 300s that weren’t allowed to leave the FOB. I’ve seen 200s that you would want with you, no matter what valley you went to.
#2. How do guard/reserve soldiers train at home now? I don’t know. None of my business. There’s always the gym. Or just generally being in good shape. I’ve been out for a few years. I had several surgeries when I was in. Several since I’ve been out. I’m not nearly in ‘Army condition’. I took this new Pt test and managed to pass each event. If I can do it, it assuredly can be done.
*also, I disagree with training to the standard of the test. In school, you don’t get the test questions, and are then told, “study these. These are your test questions.” All that does is inspire memorization and not actual learning. Hypothetically, although it would never happen, I think it would be interesting to see the Army have maybe 15 possible events, 3 exercises from 5 different exercise groups. For any given PT test, 5 events are chosen, 1 from each group.
I think that Something along those lines would ultimately have a far greater impact on the overall fitness of soldiers.
**note, a bigger issue, I think, will be the logistics of how to supply each company (or even battalion) with this gear. It sounds simple to say “we’ll just do it”. Nothing in the Army is that simple.
#3. I think people are looking at this too deeply. Have you looked at the proposed standards yet? They’re almost too low to get hurt. Even for a person who isn’t in shape.
The Army minimum for the deadlift would be 140. I’ll gladly argue that 70 reps of sit-ups are worse for your body than one poor form deadlift at 140. Oh, and it’s only 140 lbs. that’s just not a lot of weight. Power toss of 4.6 meters. Got it. Again, form doesn’t necessarily matter as much, as that is such a short distance. What I’m stating is that I think the army designed this test being intentionally easy to pass. Call me cynical.
4#. Justin Ernest. Mike Mamula. ‘Who’? You ask? Just some guys with legendary, record setting numbers at the Combine. How great did Tom Brady do? Yeah...google that. And google his shirtless pic, too. Brady didn’t really have a good combine. But he just had ‘it’.
Just as the APFT isn’t a good indicator of physical fitness, the combine isn’t a good indicator of ability to play football in the NFL. The average player, if he makes it to the league, only stays there for a few years.
See my recommendation in the middle. Stop teaching to the test. That’s an awful way to measure the fitness of any discipline. I could train a monkey to pass this test. Doesn’t mean I want a monkey up in the turret.
Best of luck
#1. The APFT doesn’t test much of anything. It’s not really a good test of fitness, and it’s not really a good test of combat fitness, either. I’ve seen 300s that weren’t allowed to leave the FOB. I’ve seen 200s that you would want with you, no matter what valley you went to.
#2. How do guard/reserve soldiers train at home now? I don’t know. None of my business. There’s always the gym. Or just generally being in good shape. I’ve been out for a few years. I had several surgeries when I was in. Several since I’ve been out. I’m not nearly in ‘Army condition’. I took this new Pt test and managed to pass each event. If I can do it, it assuredly can be done.
*also, I disagree with training to the standard of the test. In school, you don’t get the test questions, and are then told, “study these. These are your test questions.” All that does is inspire memorization and not actual learning. Hypothetically, although it would never happen, I think it would be interesting to see the Army have maybe 15 possible events, 3 exercises from 5 different exercise groups. For any given PT test, 5 events are chosen, 1 from each group.
I think that Something along those lines would ultimately have a far greater impact on the overall fitness of soldiers.
**note, a bigger issue, I think, will be the logistics of how to supply each company (or even battalion) with this gear. It sounds simple to say “we’ll just do it”. Nothing in the Army is that simple.
#3. I think people are looking at this too deeply. Have you looked at the proposed standards yet? They’re almost too low to get hurt. Even for a person who isn’t in shape.
The Army minimum for the deadlift would be 140. I’ll gladly argue that 70 reps of sit-ups are worse for your body than one poor form deadlift at 140. Oh, and it’s only 140 lbs. that’s just not a lot of weight. Power toss of 4.6 meters. Got it. Again, form doesn’t necessarily matter as much, as that is such a short distance. What I’m stating is that I think the army designed this test being intentionally easy to pass. Call me cynical.
4#. Justin Ernest. Mike Mamula. ‘Who’? You ask? Just some guys with legendary, record setting numbers at the Combine. How great did Tom Brady do? Yeah...google that. And google his shirtless pic, too. Brady didn’t really have a good combine. But he just had ‘it’.
Just as the APFT isn’t a good indicator of physical fitness, the combine isn’t a good indicator of ability to play football in the NFL. The average player, if he makes it to the league, only stays there for a few years.
See my recommendation in the middle. Stop teaching to the test. That’s an awful way to measure the fitness of any discipline. I could train a monkey to pass this test. Doesn’t mean I want a monkey up in the turret.
Best of luck
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MAJ (Join to see)
SGT (Join to see) - As for your comments on #1, I can't disprove your own observations but mine are contrary. I've never seen a 300 PT'er that couldn't physically make it in combat. Emotionally? Sure. But that's a whole different story.
With #2, my point is that the Army, in no other instance that I know of, requires a soldier to meet a standard without giving them the equipment to meet it. Soldiers aren't asked to buy their own ammo and shoot on their own, so why would they be asked to buy their own gym memberships? As far as simply passing the test, that's great, unless this test is being used like the current one which matters greatly when it comes to things like promotions. If it is (and I've heard that maybe it isn't), then passing it isn't enough.
#3. Again, perhaps it's easy to pass. But for those wanting to max it out, it will take a lot of work.
#4. You make a good point about the NFL combine. It's basically what I was saying. The combine doesn't prove a player will be successful in the NFL anymore than the current PT test will prove a soldier will be successful in combat. But it gives you an indicator. I can tell that a soldier that can run 2 miles in 14 minutes or less is in pretty good shape. I also can tell that a soldier who can't even run the 2 miles without walking needs work. But we aren't going to eve have a test that "proves" combat effectiveness. All we'll have is an indicator. Mainly because combat isn't just physical.
With #2, my point is that the Army, in no other instance that I know of, requires a soldier to meet a standard without giving them the equipment to meet it. Soldiers aren't asked to buy their own ammo and shoot on their own, so why would they be asked to buy their own gym memberships? As far as simply passing the test, that's great, unless this test is being used like the current one which matters greatly when it comes to things like promotions. If it is (and I've heard that maybe it isn't), then passing it isn't enough.
#3. Again, perhaps it's easy to pass. But for those wanting to max it out, it will take a lot of work.
#4. You make a good point about the NFL combine. It's basically what I was saying. The combine doesn't prove a player will be successful in the NFL anymore than the current PT test will prove a soldier will be successful in combat. But it gives you an indicator. I can tell that a soldier that can run 2 miles in 14 minutes or less is in pretty good shape. I also can tell that a soldier who can't even run the 2 miles without walking needs work. But we aren't going to eve have a test that "proves" combat effectiveness. All we'll have is an indicator. Mainly because combat isn't just physical.
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It sounds like the Army has realized that the APFT (and all PFTs) are poor surrogates for Combat Readiness and are trying to make a better proxy test. That's a good thing.
It also sounds like they've announced it before having anything official to say. Not necessarily a good thing.
Something that struck me as odd though. 7 days to knock out a BN? 10 hours per Company sized unit. Twice a year? We used to do a full BN in a morning (like 2 hours). This sounds like an overcomplicated mess without any details.
It also sounds like they've announced it before having anything official to say. Not necessarily a good thing.
Something that struck me as odd though. 7 days to knock out a BN? 10 hours per Company sized unit. Twice a year? We used to do a full BN in a morning (like 2 hours). This sounds like an overcomplicated mess without any details.
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MAJ (Join to see)
One of the best things about switching from the Marines to the Army was going to the range. In the Marines, it took all day for every Marine to shoot once. In the Army, everyone could shoot multiple times a day with ease. I feel like this new PT test is going to look like the USMC range. All...freakin...day. And while that's inconvenient for active duty, for those of us in the National Guard that takes up A LOT of training time.
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The burden of “time” is not going to be the problem of the SMA, secretary, or COS. It’s going to be on the small unit leaders. We will be expected to compromise nothing.
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