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President promises free community college for everyone; your thoughts?
The Presdient recently announced a plan to make tuition for an Associates Degree "free". Conditions include the federal government paying for 75% with the individual states picking up the other 25% and a minimum GPA of 2.5 with a minimum half time course load.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2015/01/08/obama-free-community-college/21466969/
What are your thoughts on this in general?
Will it affect military recruiting and retention?
The Presdient recently announced a plan to make tuition for an Associates Degree "free". Conditions include the federal government paying for 75% with the individual states picking up the other 25% and a minimum GPA of 2.5 with a minimum half time course load.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2015/01/08/obama-free-community-college/21466969/
What are your thoughts on this in general?
Will it affect military recruiting and retention?
Tuition assistance
Office of the President (POTUS)
College
Freedom
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 77
That's interesting. I'm all in favor of education for everyone. However, if college is completely "free" for everyone, I guess that means the schools can charge whatever they want, since the government will just pay the bill. That usually leads to skyrocketing costs, and is part of the reason education is so expensive today.
Except of course, there is no such thing as "free." It just means somebody else pays for it. The question is who and how?
Except of course, there is no such thing as "free." It just means somebody else pays for it. The question is who and how?
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CW5 (Join to see)
Yowza, SFC John Gates. Don't hold back. Tell us what you really think about this proposal. :-) I agree with you about the folks who will take advantage of free "s**t," but I disagree that everyone having more education cheapens or makes them worthless in the job market. Germany has a system, at the end of which, graduating students have the equivalent of our AA degree. That's the end of their high school. I think a better educated populace is a good thing all the way around.
I also agree with you about the politics of it all. The President wins no matter what; however, his being a smart politician and this being a good political move do not diminish the merit of the proposal.
I also agree with you about the politics of it all. The President wins no matter what; however, his being a smart politician and this being a good political move do not diminish the merit of the proposal.
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SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA
I posted this below, I find it also fitting to this thread here...enjoy!
I live in Europe where College is free in many countries, these ARE NOT the Ivy League schools. Private, expensive, better schools would still be available, the Gov. will not force successful institutions to go National.
As far as taxes go, this woudl not be enough, the entire system woudl need to be revamped; social welfare would need to be taken into account, as woudl unemployment, chronic unemployment, Veterans benefits and such.
In the end the USA has been falling behind in eduction and are now at the edge of a brain drain and educational abyss, it is daunting to see China, India and European nations where most speak 2 o more languages and possess a BA as a bare minimum.
You may thing that higher taxes is the only way to approach this and you may think that if the taxes would rise, you would vote against it.
What if you had the immediate chance to send your children to college for free? What then?
What if a 3% tax hike not only got a friends child an education but he therefore becomes a doctor in your community? What if the USA did not need to import foreign doctors to cover rural areas becasue there are not enough in the US? And the list goes on.
We need to get back on the bus with education, education is not a privilege, it is a human right and we owe it to our children to give them what we can...IN THE MEANTIME: If you wish to attend college for free or send your children, Germany offers this to foreigners.
Steady on!
Steven
I live in Europe where College is free in many countries, these ARE NOT the Ivy League schools. Private, expensive, better schools would still be available, the Gov. will not force successful institutions to go National.
As far as taxes go, this woudl not be enough, the entire system woudl need to be revamped; social welfare would need to be taken into account, as woudl unemployment, chronic unemployment, Veterans benefits and such.
In the end the USA has been falling behind in eduction and are now at the edge of a brain drain and educational abyss, it is daunting to see China, India and European nations where most speak 2 o more languages and possess a BA as a bare minimum.
You may thing that higher taxes is the only way to approach this and you may think that if the taxes would rise, you would vote against it.
What if you had the immediate chance to send your children to college for free? What then?
What if a 3% tax hike not only got a friends child an education but he therefore becomes a doctor in your community? What if the USA did not need to import foreign doctors to cover rural areas becasue there are not enough in the US? And the list goes on.
We need to get back on the bus with education, education is not a privilege, it is a human right and we owe it to our children to give them what we can...IN THE MEANTIME: If you wish to attend college for free or send your children, Germany offers this to foreigners.
Steady on!
Steven
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SFC(P) Tobias M.
I 100% agree with you. If you have something for "Free" then the tax payers are the ones paying for the "Free" stuff you get. I can understand helping people out but not free for everyone. That is just going to cause Prices to go up on everything not just schooling. I have seen first hand what has been happening to the price of going to college for the last 20 years and I am dumb founded. How can the cost to go to school go up that much when nothing else to taking a climb as much as this is. We need to stop trying to give out hand outs and "Help" people not spoon feed them.
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Free community college thoughts:
- POTUS did not announce a plan. He announced a concept with no details which makes it nearly impossible to determine the feasibility, acceptability, suitability, or even the distinguishability of his concept versus other ideas.
- Because of the above, there is no way to determine the overall cost of this concept nor who and how it will be paid for. 75% paid by feds and 25% paid by states is a concept. Details matter. This equates to FDR telling Ike to "enter the continent of Europe and destroy the German capability to make war". Great concept and guidance; total crap in terms of how to do it.
- Cost Benefit Analysis. If implemented, what will be the national benefits of this plan? I get the individual benefit (free community college). This is the other side of the equation to my cost question above.
- Second/Third Order Impacts. If the feds and states pick up the cost of college then what impact will this have on the cost of college itself? My tea leaves tell me it will inflate. Look at BAH. Every time our BAH is increased does your rent go up, stay same or go down? Seems to be a one for one correlation does it not?
- Proximate Cause/Problem. What is the proximate problem here? Unemployment right? So the question becomes will free community college have a positive impact upon unemployment and, if so, how much of an impact will it have? Again analysis should be shown by the administration so that the American public can follow the logic and see the numbers. We see what happens when we pass laws without reading them or properly debating them (read Affordable Care Act).
- POTUS did not announce a plan. He announced a concept with no details which makes it nearly impossible to determine the feasibility, acceptability, suitability, or even the distinguishability of his concept versus other ideas.
- Because of the above, there is no way to determine the overall cost of this concept nor who and how it will be paid for. 75% paid by feds and 25% paid by states is a concept. Details matter. This equates to FDR telling Ike to "enter the continent of Europe and destroy the German capability to make war". Great concept and guidance; total crap in terms of how to do it.
- Cost Benefit Analysis. If implemented, what will be the national benefits of this plan? I get the individual benefit (free community college). This is the other side of the equation to my cost question above.
- Second/Third Order Impacts. If the feds and states pick up the cost of college then what impact will this have on the cost of college itself? My tea leaves tell me it will inflate. Look at BAH. Every time our BAH is increased does your rent go up, stay same or go down? Seems to be a one for one correlation does it not?
- Proximate Cause/Problem. What is the proximate problem here? Unemployment right? So the question becomes will free community college have a positive impact upon unemployment and, if so, how much of an impact will it have? Again analysis should be shown by the administration so that the American public can follow the logic and see the numbers. We see what happens when we pass laws without reading them or properly debating them (read Affordable Care Act).
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PV2 (Join to see)
I agree with you COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM. It bothers me that he wants to cut DoD budgets but pay for community college for everyone. I'm at a loss as to how this will be accomplished with our current budget deficit. With the talk of immigration reform and giving amnesty to immigrants, and the stress on the social services system, how is this going to be paid for? I suspect taxes will be increased, which sucks for those of us paying our fair share. Maybe I'm simple minded, but I'm of the firm belief that if we gave incentives for businesses not to take their companies overseas and invest in America and folks buy American made, we can boost the economy and create stable jobs. The problem is we are too busy buying made in China crap from Walmart to care.
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SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S.
Great points, Colonel! But you know as well as I do that whether its paid by the feds or state, its you and I footing the bill.
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Lt Col (Join to see)
It'll have great impact on unemployment numbers...full-time students don't count as unemployed.
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SSG (Join to see)
Sir,
Current amount of federal spending on Community Colleges means this is not as much money as we might guess. There would be a successful completion clause as with all federal aid.
Let us review the evidence that is reliable.
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=economic+impact+of+community+colleges&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ei=orS1VJaDING3yASUu4KgBA&ved=0CBsQgQMwAA
This is a good start. Is the presidents plan a good one? Simply assume full funding for community college courses leading to first degree or certification.
Can you support your beliefs from evidence generated by subject matter experts and reviewed by others?
Current amount of federal spending on Community Colleges means this is not as much money as we might guess. There would be a successful completion clause as with all federal aid.
Let us review the evidence that is reliable.
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=economic+impact+of+community+colleges&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ei=orS1VJaDING3yASUu4KgBA&ved=0CBsQgQMwAA
This is a good start. Is the presidents plan a good one? Simply assume full funding for community college courses leading to first degree or certification.
Can you support your beliefs from evidence generated by subject matter experts and reviewed by others?
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I live in Europe where College is free in many countries, these ARE NOT the Ivy League schools. Private, expensive, better schools would still be available, the Gov. will not force successful institutions to go National.
As far as taxes go, this woudl not be enough, the entire system woudl need to be revamped; social welfare would need to be taken into account, as woudl unemployment, chronic unemployment, Veterans benefits and such.
In the end the USA has been falling behind in eduction and are now at the edge of a brain drain and educational abyss, it is daunting to see China, India and European nations where most speak 2 o more languages and possess a BA as a bare minimum.
You may thing that higher taxes is the only way to approach this and you may think that if the taxes would rise, you would vote against it.
What if you had the immediate chance to send your children to college for free? What then?
What if a 3% tax hike not only got a friends child an education but he therefore becomes a doctor in your community? What if the USA did not need to import foreign doctors to cover rural areas becasue there are not enough in the US? And the list goes on.
We need to get back on the bus with education, education is not a privilege, it is a human right and we owe it to our children to give them what we can...IN THE MEANTIME: If you wish to attend college for free or send your children, Germany offers this to foreigners.
Steady on!
Steven
As far as taxes go, this woudl not be enough, the entire system woudl need to be revamped; social welfare would need to be taken into account, as woudl unemployment, chronic unemployment, Veterans benefits and such.
In the end the USA has been falling behind in eduction and are now at the edge of a brain drain and educational abyss, it is daunting to see China, India and European nations where most speak 2 o more languages and possess a BA as a bare minimum.
You may thing that higher taxes is the only way to approach this and you may think that if the taxes would rise, you would vote against it.
What if you had the immediate chance to send your children to college for free? What then?
What if a 3% tax hike not only got a friends child an education but he therefore becomes a doctor in your community? What if the USA did not need to import foreign doctors to cover rural areas becasue there are not enough in the US? And the list goes on.
We need to get back on the bus with education, education is not a privilege, it is a human right and we owe it to our children to give them what we can...IN THE MEANTIME: If you wish to attend college for free or send your children, Germany offers this to foreigners.
Steady on!
Steven
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