Posted on Nov 18, 2020
Group Wants to Halt ACFT Until the Army Assesses Whether It's Fair to Female Soldiers
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Posted in these groups: 
ACFT
Women in the Military
ACFT Women in the Military
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 11
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Are we serious with this??? We want equal opportunity in all MOS's but wait, the standards aren't fair so let's change them...I am for women in all MOS's/AFSC's in the military, always have been but I am not for lowering or changing standards.
So let's take this another step...what about a transgender person...I can't pass the standards so now I am going to identify as a female...or a female identifying as a male and can't pass the standards...how are they going to be judged!!!
Maj Marty Hogan Lt Col Charlie Brown 1stSgt Glenn Brackin
Cpl Craig Morton SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth COL Mikel J. Burroughs
LTC Stephen C. CPL Dave Hoover PO3 Bob McCord
Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen Sgt Wayne Wood PVT James Strait
SFC Jack Champion MSgt David Hoffman MSgt Stephen Council
PO1 H Gene Lawrence 1SG Steven Imerman SGT Steve McFarland SSgt Terry P. Cynthia C.
So let's take this another step...what about a transgender person...I can't pass the standards so now I am going to identify as a female...or a female identifying as a male and can't pass the standards...how are they going to be judged!!!
Maj Marty Hogan Lt Col Charlie Brown 1stSgt Glenn Brackin
Cpl Craig Morton SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth COL Mikel J. Burroughs
LTC Stephen C. CPL Dave Hoover PO3 Bob McCord
Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen Sgt Wayne Wood PVT James Strait
SFC Jack Champion MSgt David Hoffman MSgt Stephen Council
PO1 H Gene Lawrence 1SG Steven Imerman SGT Steve McFarland SSgt Terry P. Cynthia C.
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Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth
PV2 Joy Phillip - You are right and thanks...Fair enough on the Transgender comments...Thanks for piping in on those...understand a little better now as I have not walked a mile in those shoes. I apologize as my intention was to not specifically call out transgender in a bad light, just using that as an example of things not fully thought out as that is all new to us and the way ahead...I should have just left it at male and female. Again my apologies.
Standards are standards and have been tested time and time again and proven in combat to be effective...we don't need to lower those or soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines will get killed and missions compromised. I know a guy years ago who was a kinesiologist that studied fitness and testing in the military...he was a civilian so he had no dog in the fight other than to present the data as it was given. His findings were that all PT tests were designed to meet the basic standards of survivability in combat...basic standards only...for special forces theirs were proven to be effective at weaning out the ones who weren't mentally and physically ready or capable of doing those jobs that were required for that particular type of warfare...Therefor I am not for accommodating or lowering any standard set forth on proven history for anyone.
Standards are standards and have been tested time and time again and proven in combat to be effective...we don't need to lower those or soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines will get killed and missions compromised. I know a guy years ago who was a kinesiologist that studied fitness and testing in the military...he was a civilian so he had no dog in the fight other than to present the data as it was given. His findings were that all PT tests were designed to meet the basic standards of survivability in combat...basic standards only...for special forces theirs were proven to be effective at weaning out the ones who weren't mentally and physically ready or capable of doing those jobs that were required for that particular type of warfare...Therefor I am not for accommodating or lowering any standard set forth on proven history for anyone.
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SFC (Join to see)
COL Mikel J. Burroughs - "What about transgender people?"
It's actually really, really easy. When they lifted the transgender ban in all the training I got about it, the military goes by what your gender marker is in DEERS. So if your gender marker in DEERS says male, you follow all the male standards - whether PT, grooming, etc. If it's female, same thing. Also transitioning took at minimum a year. A SM could not transition without approval from PCM - and then it was gradual when it came to transitioning into the standards you're going to. So for M to F - the SM would follow male standards completely and at some point, the PCM would then say when it was time to allow them to transition to female off duty. No male could one say "I identify as female" and get to do female standards on their service's fitness test. That was never how it was going to work.
So the asinine comment about how people would use being transgender to do female standards on fitness tests was just ridiculous.
Once you transitioned and your gender marker in DEERS reflected that, that's the standards a person abides by. That's it. It's that simple.
It's actually really, really easy. When they lifted the transgender ban in all the training I got about it, the military goes by what your gender marker is in DEERS. So if your gender marker in DEERS says male, you follow all the male standards - whether PT, grooming, etc. If it's female, same thing. Also transitioning took at minimum a year. A SM could not transition without approval from PCM - and then it was gradual when it came to transitioning into the standards you're going to. So for M to F - the SM would follow male standards completely and at some point, the PCM would then say when it was time to allow them to transition to female off duty. No male could one say "I identify as female" and get to do female standards on their service's fitness test. That was never how it was going to work.
So the asinine comment about how people would use being transgender to do female standards on fitness tests was just ridiculous.
Once you transitioned and your gender marker in DEERS reflected that, that's the standards a person abides by. That's it. It's that simple.
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TSgt Mitchell Mead
When I was still in, I believe the AFI stated that transgender personnel had to be signed off by a doctor before they could take the adjusted PT test. The AFI also stated that it was only after one year of hormone treatment. I really don't see how this could be an argument. Fine, standards are always going to be different for male and female soldiers to join or take a PT test. However, we need to look at how that affects the unit. When I graduated Air Assault, there were three women in our group. I never doubted them for a second. I am overjoyed that women now get to attend Ranger School. But here's the rub; a soldier needs to be able to execute orders without question. I learned this a long time ago. If you're receiving orders to move, someone smarter than you has already thought it out. If I'm hit, I need to count on you to help. If we're moving, we need to pull our own weight. I can't hump your pack for you. If you can't run a Mogadishu Mile because your standards to join were set lower, that hurts the unit. It's not about male or female, it's about capability.
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
SFC (Join to see) - I guess I should have made my "exactly" a little more clear than just "exactly", my apologies - I was just referring to this portion his statement:
"Are we serious with this??? We want equal opportunity in all MOS's but wait, the standards aren't fair so let's change them...I am for women in all MOS's/AFSC's in the military, always have been but I am not for lowering or changing standards."
In my opinion there needs to be one set of standards for all soldiers (male, female, and transgenger) and personally I liked the old APFT Test with (5) events back in the day (1975) - back in the day there was always standards set for each and you had to practice to pass.
"Are we serious with this??? We want equal opportunity in all MOS's but wait, the standards aren't fair so let's change them...I am for women in all MOS's/AFSC's in the military, always have been but I am not for lowering or changing standards."
In my opinion there needs to be one set of standards for all soldiers (male, female, and transgenger) and personally I liked the old APFT Test with (5) events back in the day (1975) - back in the day there was always standards set for each and you had to practice to pass.
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