Posted on Oct 30, 2015
CPO Cwo
33K
297
94
14
14
0
I know a sailor that is being told from their chain of command, that they are trying to send said sailor up to Captain's Mast. Right now they are making said sailor sign counselling chits for past events that they were already verbally counselled for and transpired over the past year. Is such a thing legal and does anyone know the instruction for it? The only thing I can find is:
http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/reference/milpersman/1000/1600Performance/Pages/default.aspx
Avatar feed
Responses: 49
SCPO Joshua I
23
22
1
No, it is not legal.
(23)
Comment
(1)
PO1 Interior Communications Electrician
PO1 (Join to see)
>1 y
Actually they cannot counsel the member on paper for past offenses in this case because the member was already verbally counseled. If there was no counseling at all in the past it would be a different story. To put it on paper now undermines the verbal/paper counseling relationship. In other word it's known at most commands you get three strikes on paper before being placed on a report chit which as we all know leads to DRB and whatever other steps are deemed fit. A verbal counseling is usually considered a warning, if at anytime someone could go back and change a warning into a strike against you it opens a Pandora's box for all kinds of nasty things to happen. Think about it, if a police officer lets you off with a warning and then 3 months later for whatever his reason is he decides to write you a ticket and mail it to you would that be fair?
(0)
Reply
(0)
SCPO Joshua I
SCPO Joshua I
>1 y
A counseling chit is simply to document an agreement to resolve a problem. The LTC is correct. Backdating it to make it appear something happened and was documented earlier is the problem.

Verbal counseling doesn't preclude written counseling.
(0)
Reply
(0)
PO1 Ken Vansickle
PO1 Ken Vansickle
>1 y
as it seems in this matter its the LCPO and higher that decide to build a paper trail to ether take that person to mast or to out right try to get him or her kicked out because he doesn't measure up to them, no its not right he doesn't have to sigh but in the long run his life will be made so hard that he will be written up for anything and the past counseling will be summited with out him signing them his only recourse is to contact a base lawyer but he must have everything documented him self, so to say all his ducks in a row request a transfer which will be disapproved
(0)
Reply
(0)
MCPO Jim Weatherford
MCPO Jim Weatherford
>1 y
If it's not documented it never happenned. You can call it verbal counseling, ass chewing , come to Jesus but, if it was not documented you don't have a leg to stand on. Wanting to go and back date counseling chits is an exercise in futility. Sounds like the Chain of Command tried to save this person numerous times by "verbally" counseling them and it has bit them in the butt so now they want retribution.
(2)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SCPO Joshua I
21
21
0
Edited >1 y ago
Basically it's forgery. Putting a false date on a counseling chit and then trying to use that to support an NJP is idiotic.

Start with UCMJ Article 123.
(21)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
PO2 Mark Lewandoske
20
20
0
Never ever sign anything with past date. If they are going to force them, make sure he notes that on his section that this is post dated, this was a verbal counciling they are now changing to written and they are signing it under duress.
(20)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close