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I have a Soldier who has not passed a PT in appoximately 4 years. In that time, she has gotten Pregnant twice. I have only been her NCO for 8 months. I have tried to Motivate her to did deeper, counseled her(both verbally and on paper). She has made progress each PT Test, but still continues not pass. During the last PT Test she still improved on her run, but again did not pass. Her run times increase by 1 approx. 1 min and 30 secs everytime. I have forced her to run with me after work on days that I can make myself available, and on weekends. i can honestly say that I do not believe the effort or want is there. During the last PT Test, she was aware that if she failed, the Command would push for a Chapter. Once the Soldier finished the run, she was walking normally, and completed her Height and Weight. The Soldier later sent a text saying her foot was hurting and was going to go see the Medics. After Medical examination, the Medics found her foot to be broken. The Soldeir claimed it happened during the run. The Medic stated that it did not look consistant with an injury that would come from a run, and looked like an injury of someone dropping something on their foot. After, I can distinctly remember the Soldier looking to be in pain during the entire run. I can not prove or disprove when the injury occured or how. Legal, through the packet out, I was not told why, I'm guessing because they feel that because the soldier injured herself during the run, that being the reason she failed, it was not fair to her to be Chaptered. Just wondering what everyone elses thoughts are.
APFT
Law
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 16
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This is a great experience to have at this point in your career. When I encounter someone like this, I ask questions that may seem outside of the issue at hand like, why did you join the Army? Would you still join again if you had it to do all over? Why did you pick your MOS? If you could be anything, in or out of the military, what would you want to be? The answers to this questions will clear up whether this is a Soldier who just needs to figure out her career path to become excited about her future with the Army, or if this is someone who is just marking time.
In TRADOC units, there is a phenomenon where Soldiers coming off of recent deployments, especially those who experienced trauma, blow off the schoolhouse. They are unmotivated, combative with instructors, sham PT sessions, etc, etc. What is really happening for these Soldiers is that after the harsh reality of combat, they find themselves just "going through the motions" - sometimes even with their families. Having a new baby has a similar effect. You are catatonic. You aren't sleeping. Life seems like one emergency after another.
As leaders, we are good at understanding the connection between PT failure and a lack of personal motivation. Where we fall down on the job is thinking about why a Soldier might lack personal motivation. People are quick to assume laziness, but if the Soldier was ever fit, that means something changed. Your job is to help pinpoint what. Somethings, like getting her to think about what she wants to do in the Army going forward, you can help with; somethings, like needing counseling or parenting support, you can't, but you can help get her linked up with the FRSA.
My mantra: Learn the difference between problem Soldiers and Soldiers with problems. If you are the former, I will help show you the door. If you are the latter, I am going to do everything I can to help you get back on track. I am so glad you brought this to our community. Good luck to both of you!
In TRADOC units, there is a phenomenon where Soldiers coming off of recent deployments, especially those who experienced trauma, blow off the schoolhouse. They are unmotivated, combative with instructors, sham PT sessions, etc, etc. What is really happening for these Soldiers is that after the harsh reality of combat, they find themselves just "going through the motions" - sometimes even with their families. Having a new baby has a similar effect. You are catatonic. You aren't sleeping. Life seems like one emergency after another.
As leaders, we are good at understanding the connection between PT failure and a lack of personal motivation. Where we fall down on the job is thinking about why a Soldier might lack personal motivation. People are quick to assume laziness, but if the Soldier was ever fit, that means something changed. Your job is to help pinpoint what. Somethings, like getting her to think about what she wants to do in the Army going forward, you can help with; somethings, like needing counseling or parenting support, you can't, but you can help get her linked up with the FRSA.
My mantra: Learn the difference between problem Soldiers and Soldiers with problems. If you are the former, I will help show you the door. If you are the latter, I am going to do everything I can to help you get back on track. I am so glad you brought this to our community. Good luck to both of you!
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I am a mother of 4 -- and a physician as well as a Naval Officer -- here is my 2 sense:
(1) She pushed through a run in pain with a broken toe (I have broken a toe as well and PT'd through it -- bone pain is not fun) -- so let that speak for her motivation.
(2) Losing weight after a baby or two or more can be done -- but it is not easy to do for a ton of reasons -- not necessarily one that gets her off the hook but should be understood on a personal level. Try and see if you can find people in your area that have done it. Speaking to women who have been there and found a way to transcend can be helpful and motivating. It is very frustrating to feel like you are doing what you should to lose the weight but it doesn't come off. And honestly, as kind as I am sure you are (as evidenced by you doing those runs with her) you don't understand either -- and trust me her internal dialogue is damaging and is also telling her that 'you just don't understand" which adds to her self-defeat.
(3) She needs exercises that are the most bang for her buck . . . circuit training is a great option for this. She doesn't have a lot of time so circuit training is usually complete within 30min and will still help with both her cardio abilities and her strength -- it will also help her with keeping her body guessing and therefore help her to lose weight.
Medically --- I agree with legal (and I don't do that often) --- you can't say how she broke her foot at this point (I don't care what the medic says) so she should not have gone through the fitness test either way. The army rules are different in regards to height/weight so I can't speak to that.
Hope this helps. If she needs a mentor/motivator I am happy to help. She can reach out to me any time. I had 3 of my children on active duty and very close together so I very much so understand her struggle.
(1) She pushed through a run in pain with a broken toe (I have broken a toe as well and PT'd through it -- bone pain is not fun) -- so let that speak for her motivation.
(2) Losing weight after a baby or two or more can be done -- but it is not easy to do for a ton of reasons -- not necessarily one that gets her off the hook but should be understood on a personal level. Try and see if you can find people in your area that have done it. Speaking to women who have been there and found a way to transcend can be helpful and motivating. It is very frustrating to feel like you are doing what you should to lose the weight but it doesn't come off. And honestly, as kind as I am sure you are (as evidenced by you doing those runs with her) you don't understand either -- and trust me her internal dialogue is damaging and is also telling her that 'you just don't understand" which adds to her self-defeat.
(3) She needs exercises that are the most bang for her buck . . . circuit training is a great option for this. She doesn't have a lot of time so circuit training is usually complete within 30min and will still help with both her cardio abilities and her strength -- it will also help her with keeping her body guessing and therefore help her to lose weight.
Medically --- I agree with legal (and I don't do that often) --- you can't say how she broke her foot at this point (I don't care what the medic says) so she should not have gone through the fitness test either way. The army rules are different in regards to height/weight so I can't speak to that.
Hope this helps. If she needs a mentor/motivator I am happy to help. She can reach out to me any time. I had 3 of my children on active duty and very close together so I very much so understand her struggle.
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SSG (Join to see)
Thank you very much, I am definately not to afraid that my knowledge about female Soldiers is meager at best, She did beat the Chapter, and I will be utilizing your advice to ensure she is successful. Once she gets a RallyPoint Account, I will make sure she contacts you and any other avenues of guidance. Man I love this page, Thank You.
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LCDR (Join to see)
You are very welcome. You are proving yourself to be a great leader. Forward thinking and open to finding ways to help your fellow soldiers and uphold your committment to the Army. keep it up!
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SSG Toryn Green
Looking at the facts, she's continually making progress. That's all you can ask for. If she is clearly putting in the effort and continuing to make progress, just continue to counsel her and encourage her. Before you know it, she'll be passing.
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Here is a crusty old 1SG perspective.
Where is the senior NCO leadership in the unit? Sure her first line supervisor is doing the right thing, but if the Soldier does not have the faith and confidence in the senior leadership of the company that she will be helped throughout the process it should surprise no one that this Soldier may be demonstrating a few signs of apathy.
That said, we live in the here and now. What can be done for this Soldier to get her through the process? Get the leadership involved in a positive way. Get an MFT involved, preferably a female who has been through the mess, but will hold the Soldier to task. Establish realistic milestones for her improvement. She did not become physically unfit in a few months, why think she can fix herself in that short of a time?
Have a true heart to heart discussion with this Soldier, one based on openness and trust. Does she want to stay in? Does she have support on all fronts? Remember the whole Soldier concept? Apply some positive leadership and either coach, teach and mentor her back to a Soldier who meets the standards, or coach, teach and mentor her to make the decision to get our of the Army for her own good (and I mean that in a manner that she may be missing good opportunities in the civilian environment). Do the right thing for the Soldier and it will be the right thing for the Army.
Top Out.
Where is the senior NCO leadership in the unit? Sure her first line supervisor is doing the right thing, but if the Soldier does not have the faith and confidence in the senior leadership of the company that she will be helped throughout the process it should surprise no one that this Soldier may be demonstrating a few signs of apathy.
That said, we live in the here and now. What can be done for this Soldier to get her through the process? Get the leadership involved in a positive way. Get an MFT involved, preferably a female who has been through the mess, but will hold the Soldier to task. Establish realistic milestones for her improvement. She did not become physically unfit in a few months, why think she can fix herself in that short of a time?
Have a true heart to heart discussion with this Soldier, one based on openness and trust. Does she want to stay in? Does she have support on all fronts? Remember the whole Soldier concept? Apply some positive leadership and either coach, teach and mentor her back to a Soldier who meets the standards, or coach, teach and mentor her to make the decision to get our of the Army for her own good (and I mean that in a manner that she may be missing good opportunities in the civilian environment). Do the right thing for the Soldier and it will be the right thing for the Army.
Top Out.
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SSG Bill Mizell
I agree to a point with you Top. However, it IS the ultimate responsibility of the soldier to provide the motivation and will to do this. With leadership help and some heart to heart and after hours PT, this can be accomplished, but, only if the soldier is willing to follow through. 4 years without a passing AFPT is a bit much.
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1SG Mark Colomb
Bill, my underlying point is a Soldier can only be called a POS for so long before they actually start acting like it. This Soldier may have been told she is a failure so many times by her leadership she is now in a bad place.
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