Posted on Dec 20, 2017
Can a Senior NCO order a lower enlisted (Private) to hand over their personal cell phone?
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Orders
Enlisted
Cell Phones
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 19
Confiscate legal personal property? NO.
But absolutely order the SM to not use it, have in their hand in any way shape or form during duty hours unless on a prescribed and authorized break.
And if the SM is so inclined, Id be happy to take it off your hands and store it for you so do not run afoul of that requirement...... Your choice Soldier,,,, but you have been given a lawful order.. If you so much as fall down and have the phone fall out of your pocket and into your hand.. you are going to have problems.
So what is your preference? Maintain it and not touch it? or lock it and drop it in this box here till lunch time?
That said you did not provide much in way of context.
Is the SM and NCO standing near a restricted area that phones are not allowed?
Has the phone been used in a manner that violates policy, regulations, a lawful order?
Is the NCO providing what may technically be not allowed, but it is a leadership decision in effort of dealing with an issue short of UCMJ?
I did that a fair amount for minor infractions of the bone head nature..... "You can deal with me and no complaints or you can deal with the commander and UCMJ..which is it and you can not change your mind after"
I only offered that on things that no one got hurt, no crime committed and no malice intended.
Drunk SM peed on the company "rock" last night
Pissed off SM through a wrench in the MP, broke a window
SM backed up a vehicle without a ground guide in an empty parking lot at night and hit a pole.
But absolutely order the SM to not use it, have in their hand in any way shape or form during duty hours unless on a prescribed and authorized break.
And if the SM is so inclined, Id be happy to take it off your hands and store it for you so do not run afoul of that requirement...... Your choice Soldier,,,, but you have been given a lawful order.. If you so much as fall down and have the phone fall out of your pocket and into your hand.. you are going to have problems.
So what is your preference? Maintain it and not touch it? or lock it and drop it in this box here till lunch time?
That said you did not provide much in way of context.
Is the SM and NCO standing near a restricted area that phones are not allowed?
Has the phone been used in a manner that violates policy, regulations, a lawful order?
Is the NCO providing what may technically be not allowed, but it is a leadership decision in effort of dealing with an issue short of UCMJ?
I did that a fair amount for minor infractions of the bone head nature..... "You can deal with me and no complaints or you can deal with the commander and UCMJ..which is it and you can not change your mind after"
I only offered that on things that no one got hurt, no crime committed and no malice intended.
Drunk SM peed on the company "rock" last night
Pissed off SM through a wrench in the MP, broke a window
SM backed up a vehicle without a ground guide in an empty parking lot at night and hit a pole.
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SGM Erik Marquez
PV2 (Join to see) - Regulation that states what? That an NCO is authorized and required to enforce policy, regulations rules and guidelines?
If you have not yet read my first post on the topic please do, if still a question , be specific... what is it you are asking.
Thanks
If you have not yet read my first post on the topic please do, if still a question , be specific... what is it you are asking.
Thanks
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CSM William Everroad
I had a PSG who was having the same problem with phones. The LT banned their use during all training exercises and offered a secure lockbox for everyone to drop it in. They were never put in a position where they felt they had to confiscate the phones, but did deal with a couple who violated the direct order which was quickly resolved.
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I can see a number of situations where this might occur.
Most of them involve being told to put the damned thing away and concentrate on the task at hand... and SPC Tentpeg not getting the message.
As a rule, I don't lightly take things away from people. It breeds resentment. And it makes the subordinate feel like a child.
But I do hand out opportunities for quality time with some Sr NCOs if Joe can't figure it out the easy way.
Most of them involve being told to put the damned thing away and concentrate on the task at hand... and SPC Tentpeg not getting the message.
As a rule, I don't lightly take things away from people. It breeds resentment. And it makes the subordinate feel like a child.
But I do hand out opportunities for quality time with some Sr NCOs if Joe can't figure it out the easy way.
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Really need more information before giving a ye or nay on this one. As far as the word order is concerned, under the correct circumstances this is entirely warranted. Many people have already posted that an order cannot be given by an NCO, they are mistaken. There are two kinds of orders, direct and lawful. Direct orders can only be given by officers, however, lawful orders can be given by NCOs. Under certain circumstances, it could be a lawful order to surrender a personal cellular device.
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SGM Erik Marquez
SGT Joseph Gunderson I think you'll find, no one commissioned or non commission can confiscate personal property "just because" If its evidence of a crime? Sure? If it is an unauthorized item in a secure and restricted area? You bet.
Is it in the training classroom being a distraction? NOPE, you simply give them an order not to use it again, if said order is violated, now you have justification.
Same with car keys...and thats always been an issue, we do POV inspections , find no valid insurance...and some well meaning leader says "Give me your Keys" That is a big no no..... Order them not to drive or allow the vehicle to be driven until prof of valid insurance is provided ...absolutely.
Im really very familiar with this issue as, I was one of those leaders .. It was a good idea at the time and done to protect the SM.. but still shown to me why legally wrong.
Is it in the training classroom being a distraction? NOPE, you simply give them an order not to use it again, if said order is violated, now you have justification.
Same with car keys...and thats always been an issue, we do POV inspections , find no valid insurance...and some well meaning leader says "Give me your Keys" That is a big no no..... Order them not to drive or allow the vehicle to be driven until prof of valid insurance is provided ...absolutely.
Im really very familiar with this issue as, I was one of those leaders .. It was a good idea at the time and done to protect the SM.. but still shown to me why legally wrong.
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SGT Joseph Gunderson
I understand, that is why I said that under certain circumstances it could be done.
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