Posted on Sep 13, 2018
Can a unit (position doesn't really matter for this) force SM's to purchase specific items?
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Here's the question(s) more in depth. Someone approached me about this, their unit has routine "A&B bag" inspections. A new list just came out. There are certain items on this list that typically come from the Unit Supply Clerk, such as "engineer tape" and "100mph tape", but there are other items listed such as "wrist watch" or "knife/multitool". Aside from the OCIE on the list, it was announced that the unit supply would NOT be providing ANY of these items. It was stated that all members of the unit will purchase any item (outside of OCIE) that is on the list that they do not currently possess. I cannot find for the life of me which (if any) regulation covers this. I've seen several other posts about forcing the purchase of jump boots, or similar uniform items, but those are uniform items and fall into a difference category....Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Posted 7 y ago
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Since I've been in the Guard, I've been issued multi-tools and they're on the list of things I don't have to turn in.
Things like engineer tape, 100mph tape, etc have always been supplied by the unit whether I was Active or Guard. That type of thing is always in the range boxes or part of a vehicle inventory or something.
Usually when a unit can't/won't issue basic items like tape, there's a mismanagement of funds somewhere.
Things like engineer tape, 100mph tape, etc have always been supplied by the unit whether I was Active or Guard. That type of thing is always in the range boxes or part of a vehicle inventory or something.
Usually when a unit can't/won't issue basic items like tape, there's a mismanagement of funds somewhere.
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Unless something has changed drastically, There are NSNs for both and they are available through the system.
We used to have wrist watches in supply so Soldiers could sign them out for WLC, and BNCOC and also for reconnaissance missions. We also had pocket knives, however they were authorized as part of our MTOE in the Carpenter, Plumber, and Electricians tool boxes. They were highly pilferable items and a pain in the keester to keep accountability of. They were Statement of Charges and later FLIPL generating little units. I will dig up the NSNs and post latter.
Sometimes commands do things out of ignorance, perhaps not knowing things are available through the system, laziness and not wanting to have to maintain accountability of such small pilferable items or occasionally out of lack of experience.
My experience and practice was that if we couldn't get it through the system then it didn't go on the mandatory list but the recommended list.
Think of this though....
Without a wrist watch, pocket watch or other old school time keeping device how will your troops be on time for formations, make LDs or give accurate SALUTE reports if there isn't power available to charge the cell phones which everyone now uses to keep time.
Give me a pocket knife or a hatchet and I can mark trails, build shelter, disrupt commo and generally survive for an extended period of time nearly anywhere that there's water.
We used to have wrist watches in supply so Soldiers could sign them out for WLC, and BNCOC and also for reconnaissance missions. We also had pocket knives, however they were authorized as part of our MTOE in the Carpenter, Plumber, and Electricians tool boxes. They were highly pilferable items and a pain in the keester to keep accountability of. They were Statement of Charges and later FLIPL generating little units. I will dig up the NSNs and post latter.
Sometimes commands do things out of ignorance, perhaps not knowing things are available through the system, laziness and not wanting to have to maintain accountability of such small pilferable items or occasionally out of lack of experience.
My experience and practice was that if we couldn't get it through the system then it didn't go on the mandatory list but the recommended list.
Think of this though....
Without a wrist watch, pocket watch or other old school time keeping device how will your troops be on time for formations, make LDs or give accurate SALUTE reports if there isn't power available to charge the cell phones which everyone now uses to keep time.
Give me a pocket knife or a hatchet and I can mark trails, build shelter, disrupt commo and generally survive for an extended period of time nearly anywhere that there's water.
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SGT (Join to see)
I understand certain items would be more beneficial to purchase out of pocket. Based on the packing list I saw, if the SM pays out of pocket for all non-OCIE on the list it’s easily $300 in stuff, most of which supply SHOULD be able to issue. 550 cord, 100mph tape, engineer tape, the list goes on. I know there’s an NSN for everything. Supply has an NSN for Monster energy drinks for crying out loud. I’m trying to find something in black and white that says the unit has to go through supply when possible, or that they’re allowed to order troops to buy all this stuff. I’ve already had a conversation with a few NCO’s and none of them are willing to challenge higher level leadership.
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CSM Richard StCyr
SGT (Join to see) - Other than common sense, good training and experience the only specific guidance I have found that says not to do this has been in the form of several JAG opinions that cite DOD Directive 5500-7R on Joint Ethics and CFR Code 5 part 2635 again on ethics.
Issuing expendable items like 100 MPH tape, engineer tape or 550 cord from supply is not prohibited by AR 735-5 property accountability as they are in support of a command requirement. Neither would the pocket knives as they are available through the system.
So there's the ammo with a couple actual references (not uncle crusties' opinion). If the NCOs are willing to whine about the injustice then they should be willing to discuss the issue with their Leaders when given references to support their complaint; otherwise their morally weak, disloyal to their troops and cowards (my opinion). Once they Soldier up and see the CoC and get no results then contact the local JAG and IG.
Issuing expendable items like 100 MPH tape, engineer tape or 550 cord from supply is not prohibited by AR 735-5 property accountability as they are in support of a command requirement. Neither would the pocket knives as they are available through the system.
So there's the ammo with a couple actual references (not uncle crusties' opinion). If the NCOs are willing to whine about the injustice then they should be willing to discuss the issue with their Leaders when given references to support their complaint; otherwise their morally weak, disloyal to their troops and cowards (my opinion). Once they Soldier up and see the CoC and get no results then contact the local JAG and IG.
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