Posted on Aug 13, 2019
Can a prior service Marine wear a CIB in the Army?
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Had a former Marine infantryman in my unit come into the Army under the 18x program, and went through infantry OSUT. He was a few months into the Army with a CIB. I asked how he got it, and he explained since he engaged the enemy as a Marine infantryman, he was allowed to wear the Army CIB? Any clarification on this.
Posted >1 y ago
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Absolutely not. If he saw combat as a Marine, then he would have received the Combat Action Ribbon. He can still wear that. But the Combat Action Ribbon does NOT magically turn into a CAB/CIB when you switch branches. You just keep wearing the ribbon.
For context: A LOT of prior Marines try this... You'll see them wearing CAB's, CIB's and Marine unit patches as combat patches. As for the combat patches, you have to be a SOLDIER to be awarded a combat patch. Combat time while serving in another branch of service does NOT count. This is expressly stated in AR 600-8-22. But you still see it a ton anyway...
It's mostly ignorance, not malicious. I mean, prior Marines aren't generally Army Regulation experts when they first switch over. Why would they be, after all? But they DO need corrected though. That's how we learn.
For context: A LOT of prior Marines try this... You'll see them wearing CAB's, CIB's and Marine unit patches as combat patches. As for the combat patches, you have to be a SOLDIER to be awarded a combat patch. Combat time while serving in another branch of service does NOT count. This is expressly stated in AR 600-8-22. But you still see it a ton anyway...
It's mostly ignorance, not malicious. I mean, prior Marines aren't generally Army Regulation experts when they first switch over. Why would they be, after all? But they DO need corrected though. That's how we learn.
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SSG James Ramirez
I was a marine before going Army. All of our prior service marines in my unit with CARs (Marine Combat Action Ribbon) were able to be converted, only through Da form 4187 with supporting documents. However, their conversions were only rated for the CAB
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SFC Michael Hasbun
SSG James Ramirez - The reverse is true as well, Soldiers who join the Marines can have CAB/CIB converted to CAR's.
But you have to go through the process and get it approved (the 4187 with supporting documentation up to HRC). You can't just wear one because you have the other. And once converted, you'd have to stop wearing your CAR. That's one of the most important awards a Marine can have. I don't think it's worth it. Even as a Soldier, I'm still more proud of my CAR vs my CAB, as the criteria are more stringent for the CAR.
But you have to go through the process and get it approved (the 4187 with supporting documentation up to HRC). You can't just wear one because you have the other. And once converted, you'd have to stop wearing your CAR. That's one of the most important awards a Marine can have. I don't think it's worth it. Even as a Soldier, I'm still more proud of my CAR vs my CAB, as the criteria are more stringent for the CAR.
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SFC (Join to see)
SSG James Ramirez I thought about converting my CAR but that would look a little weird without having a "combat patch." (Even though soliders have the option to NOT wear a combat patch even after earning it)
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According to AR 600-8-22, under the Combat Infantryman Badge, in the following subparagraph:
(5) Service members from the other U.S. Armed Forces and foreign military (infantry and SF equivalents) assigned or attached as a member of a U.S. Army infantry or SF unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size may be considered for award of the CIB. All basic requirements as listed above must be met. Retroactive awards under these criteria are not authorized for service prior to 18 September 2001.
So, if the Marine in question was assigned to a US Army Infantry unit and was granted permission through the proper documents and channels, then yes he can wear it. Now, if he doesn't have said documentation giving permission and is only wearing it because he used to be a Marine Infantryman, then he is more wrong than a 3 dollar bill and needs to take it off.
(5) Service members from the other U.S. Armed Forces and foreign military (infantry and SF equivalents) assigned or attached as a member of a U.S. Army infantry or SF unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size may be considered for award of the CIB. All basic requirements as listed above must be met. Retroactive awards under these criteria are not authorized for service prior to 18 September 2001.
So, if the Marine in question was assigned to a US Army Infantry unit and was granted permission through the proper documents and channels, then yes he can wear it. Now, if he doesn't have said documentation giving permission and is only wearing it because he used to be a Marine Infantryman, then he is more wrong than a 3 dollar bill and needs to take it off.
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SSG James Ramirez
(1) NAVY AND MARINE CORPS PERSONNEL ARE NOT AUTHORIZED TO WEAR THE U.S. AIR FORCE COMBAT ACTION MEDAL (CAM) OR THE U.S. ARMY COMBAT INFANTRYMAN BADGE (CIB), COMBAT MEDICAL BADGE (CMB), OR COMBAT ACTION BADGE (CAB), UPON THE NAVY OR MARINE CORPS UNIFORM. HOWEVER, THERE ARE SOME CIRCUMSTANCES IN WHICH THE CAR MAY BE AUTHORIZED TO BE WORN IN PLACE OF THESE OTHER SERVICE COMBAT AWARDS.
(2) U.S. MARINE CORPS PERSONNEL PERMANENTLY OR TEMPORARILY ASSIGNED TO U.S. ARMY OR U.S. AIR FORCE COMMANDS ARE NOT ELIGIBLE TO ACCEPT, WEAR OR RETAIN THE CIB, THE CAB, OR THE CAM. IN CASES WHERE A MARINE'S ACTIONS IN COMBAT MEET THE ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA FOR THE CIB, CAB, OR CAM, THE U.S. ARMY OR U.S. AIR FORCE COMMANDER MAY SUBMIT A PERSONAL AWARD RECOMMENDATION FOR THE CAR TO CMC (MMMA) FOR CONSIDERATION.
(3) U.S. NAVY PERSONNEL PERMANENTLY OR TEMPORARILY ASSIGNED TO U.S. ARMY COMMANDS IN COMBAT, WHO, WITH THE OFFICIAL CONCURRENCE OF CNO (OR HIS DESIGNEE), ARE AWARDED THE CIB/CMB BY THE ARMY, ARE AUTHORIZED TO WEAR THE CAR UPON COMPLETION OF THEIR ASSIGNMENT WITH THE ARMY. THE NAVY DEPARTMENT AWARDS WEB SERVICE (NDAWS) WILL BE UPDATED TO REFLECT CONVERSION OF THE CIB/CMB TO THE CAR AT THE TIME CNO CONCURRENCE IS GRANTED.
(4) U.S. NAVY PERSONNEL PERMANENTLY OR TEMPORARILY ASSIGNED TO U.S. ARMY OR U.S. AIR FORCE COMMANDS IN COMBAT, WHO QUALIFY FOR THE COMBAT ACTION BADGE (CAB) OR THE COMBAT ACTION MEDAL (CAM), ARE NOT AUTOMATICALLY ELIGIBLE FOR THE CAR. IF NAVY CONCURRENCE IS APPROVED FOR THE CAB OR CAM, CNO WILL DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT CAR CRITERIA HAVE BEEN MET, AND NDAWS WILL BE UPDATED TO SPECIFICALLY REFLECT APPROVAL OR DISAPPROVAL OF CAR CONVERSION.
(5) NAVY AND MARINE CORPS PERSONNEL WHO, WHILE FORMERLY MEMBERS OF THE U.S. ARMY OR U.S. AIR FORCE, WERE AWARDED THE CIB OR CMB, MAY UPON SUBMISSION OF OFFICIAL MILITARY DOCUMENTATION TO THEIR COMMANDING OFFICER, BE AUTHORIZED TO WEAR THE CAR ON THEIR NAVY/MARINE CORPS UNIFORM IN PLACE OF THE CIB/CMB.
(2) U.S. MARINE CORPS PERSONNEL PERMANENTLY OR TEMPORARILY ASSIGNED TO U.S. ARMY OR U.S. AIR FORCE COMMANDS ARE NOT ELIGIBLE TO ACCEPT, WEAR OR RETAIN THE CIB, THE CAB, OR THE CAM. IN CASES WHERE A MARINE'S ACTIONS IN COMBAT MEET THE ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA FOR THE CIB, CAB, OR CAM, THE U.S. ARMY OR U.S. AIR FORCE COMMANDER MAY SUBMIT A PERSONAL AWARD RECOMMENDATION FOR THE CAR TO CMC (MMMA) FOR CONSIDERATION.
(3) U.S. NAVY PERSONNEL PERMANENTLY OR TEMPORARILY ASSIGNED TO U.S. ARMY COMMANDS IN COMBAT, WHO, WITH THE OFFICIAL CONCURRENCE OF CNO (OR HIS DESIGNEE), ARE AWARDED THE CIB/CMB BY THE ARMY, ARE AUTHORIZED TO WEAR THE CAR UPON COMPLETION OF THEIR ASSIGNMENT WITH THE ARMY. THE NAVY DEPARTMENT AWARDS WEB SERVICE (NDAWS) WILL BE UPDATED TO REFLECT CONVERSION OF THE CIB/CMB TO THE CAR AT THE TIME CNO CONCURRENCE IS GRANTED.
(4) U.S. NAVY PERSONNEL PERMANENTLY OR TEMPORARILY ASSIGNED TO U.S. ARMY OR U.S. AIR FORCE COMMANDS IN COMBAT, WHO QUALIFY FOR THE COMBAT ACTION BADGE (CAB) OR THE COMBAT ACTION MEDAL (CAM), ARE NOT AUTOMATICALLY ELIGIBLE FOR THE CAR. IF NAVY CONCURRENCE IS APPROVED FOR THE CAB OR CAM, CNO WILL DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT CAR CRITERIA HAVE BEEN MET, AND NDAWS WILL BE UPDATED TO SPECIFICALLY REFLECT APPROVAL OR DISAPPROVAL OF CAR CONVERSION.
(5) NAVY AND MARINE CORPS PERSONNEL WHO, WHILE FORMERLY MEMBERS OF THE U.S. ARMY OR U.S. AIR FORCE, WERE AWARDED THE CIB OR CMB, MAY UPON SUBMISSION OF OFFICIAL MILITARY DOCUMENTATION TO THEIR COMMANDING OFFICER, BE AUTHORIZED TO WEAR THE CAR ON THEIR NAVY/MARINE CORPS UNIFORM IN PLACE OF THE CIB/CMB.
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SSG James Ramirez
This is posted from the Maradmin 038/13. Even if a Marine was assigned to an Army infantry unit as an infantryman, he would not be authorized the CIB, and would instead have criteria for the Marine CAR reviewed and awarded if approved. The only way for Marines to earn a CIB is the Army Regs way of earning it
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No, he is not automatically authorized either the CIB or the CAB. Read AR 600-8-22. par 8-8 d. for the CAB and specifics for members of other branches. Para 8-6 e. covers the CIB and award to members of other branches. I'm still looking to see if the Marine Combat Action Ribbon is one that is transferable to the Army for wear.
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CSM Richard StCyr
So after much searching I found that the former Marine can wear the Combat Action Ribbon (if he was awarded it) on their Army ribbon rack. It would be lower than an AAM but higher in precedence then an Army Good Conduct Medal.
To ferret out the authorizations and precedents you have to dig through all four volumes of the DoD manual 1348.33 series. Manual of Military Decorations and Awards.
To ferret out the authorizations and precedents you have to dig through all four volumes of the DoD manual 1348.33 series. Manual of Military Decorations and Awards.
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