Posted on Aug 22, 2019
Would you call in a SM the next day after surgery, knowing that they are medicated, if they forgot to submit a convalescent leave request?
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I currently had surgery, and with everything going on I forgot to fill out my con-leave 4187, the day after surgery my NCO called me in knowing I was still medicated. My question is if it was your soldier would you have called the SM back in to fill out the form or would have you done it yourself ?
Posted in these groups: 71D: Legal Specialist
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Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 10
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Are you asking if an NCO would have forged your 4187 and signature in order to cover your mistake that you made prior to surgery? Or are you saying that you chose to drive while intoxicated when you could have called for a ride or an Uber?
You may not realize this, but if you're sitting at home high on opiates during a duty day and something happens (you get hurt, get lost, etc) there are huge repercussions for you and your leadership. Imagine this scenario: you're at home, medicated, you fall and break your arm, you accidentally hurt someone else, you're not present for a UA, Now a line of duty investigation determines your injury wasn't in the line of duty because you never took leave.
Or, imagine the scenario where your NCO forges the signature of their soldier and the soldier decides they don't want to get charged for the leave. Now they allege they never signed the 4187 or the DA31 and that NCO has just forged a signature, charged a SM leave, and will be looking at UCMJ and separation. Are you suggesting that you would risk your family's financial future because an NCO failed to fill out their own paperwork? An NCO who is in the medical field and should be familiar with convalescent leave? It's difficult to expect someone else to cover our own shortcomings.
So, yes I would hold another NCO to the standard of correcting their own mistakes.
You may not realize this, but if you're sitting at home high on opiates during a duty day and something happens (you get hurt, get lost, etc) there are huge repercussions for you and your leadership. Imagine this scenario: you're at home, medicated, you fall and break your arm, you accidentally hurt someone else, you're not present for a UA, Now a line of duty investigation determines your injury wasn't in the line of duty because you never took leave.
Or, imagine the scenario where your NCO forges the signature of their soldier and the soldier decides they don't want to get charged for the leave. Now they allege they never signed the 4187 or the DA31 and that NCO has just forged a signature, charged a SM leave, and will be looking at UCMJ and separation. Are you suggesting that you would risk your family's financial future because an NCO failed to fill out their own paperwork? An NCO who is in the medical field and should be familiar with convalescent leave? It's difficult to expect someone else to cover our own shortcomings.
So, yes I would hold another NCO to the standard of correcting their own mistakes.
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SGT (Join to see)
I’m not saying to forge any signature SFC, I’m simply stating would you have just started the 4187 and have the SM sign it, I’m not saying that I wasn’t responsible for the form, but just as we would do it for our joes / lower enlisted because we are there leaders, but that should change because I’m a NCO? My leaders couldn’t of helped ?. Now my wife who texted my leadership that she would bring in the forms that the hospital gave to her but my NCO insisted the he would pick it up him self from our home but still calls myself in the next morning. I’m all for holding some one to the standard of correcting there own mistake but not at the price of putting them in harms way especially while under the influence.
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SGT Chris Stephens
If your wife ad previously offered to take in the forms for you, why couldn't she drive you? You wouldn't have to get behind the wheel, thus not endangering any lives. Or take Uber or Lyft.
Also, you have to remember that different NCOs operate different ways. Some will fill out the form and then bring it to the SM to sign. Others have a ton of things on their plate and can't do that, so that is the next best option. Regardless of whether or not you would do it or agree with what they did, it comes back to the fact that you didn't fill out the form originally. Actions have consequences.
Also, you have to remember that different NCOs operate different ways. Some will fill out the form and then bring it to the SM to sign. Others have a ton of things on their plate and can't do that, so that is the next best option. Regardless of whether or not you would do it or agree with what they did, it comes back to the fact that you didn't fill out the form originally. Actions have consequences.
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First off convalescent leave isn’t done with a 4187, it’s a DA 31. Now to answer your question, I would have typed it up for my Soldier, took it to him/her to sign and make sure I get the paperwork that was provided by the provider.
Although I don’t agree with how it was done, you have to own your part of not taking care of yourself, it is your responsibility to make sure everything is in order prior to your surgery.
Although I don’t agree with how it was done, you have to own your part of not taking care of yourself, it is your responsibility to make sure everything is in order prior to your surgery.
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The question becomes this, were the medications such that if stopped by LEO you would have been charged with under the influence? If so, I would not have, but explained about the medication. The NCO could have just as easily offered to come to your place and get you to sign it there, and check on your condition as well, but not all think like that.
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SGT (Join to see)
Yes, the medication I’m currently taking are Percocets, the day of my surgery my wife took photos of me and the papers the surgeons gave her and she offered to take them In but my NCO stated that he would pick them up from my home himself, but instead texted me @0700 the next morning to come in or put my uniform on and report for duty.
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SSG Keith Cashion
Wow! I could say something doesn't sound right about how that was handled, but I do not understand the NCO's thinking.
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SGT Traudel Haney
I do as well, but still soldiering is taking a hard look at any situation and assessing risk factors in...even if they live on post, the risk would still endanger a life or more....
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