Posted on Feb 5, 2014

Counseling....Are we doing it right?

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I have to admit that as a young Sgt, I was guilty of the cookie cutter counseling "read and sign". How many Soldiers actually get counseled the way they should be, face to face, two-way conversation, setting real goals, and closing them out?

Additionally, how many NCOs actually get counseled/counsel using the DA Form 2166-8-1? My NCOS (I currently rate three Sgts) get quarterly counselings almost to the day using the support form.

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Counseling

Edited 10 y ago

Posted 10 y ago

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Responses: 8

CPT (Join to see)

Posted 10 y ago

Clearly leadership that is both educated and involved in the counseling process is absolutely essential to addressing this problem. But is there anything else that will help solve the systemic issue of poor counseling? Should NCOs and Officers be more willing to step up and demand proper counseling from their supervisors?

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SFC (Join to see)

10 y

I definitely think we should Sir, but the right way has to start from the top in my opinion.

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CSM (Join to see)

10 y

"leadership that is both educated and involved in the counseling process is absolutely essential"

Even as a 1SG counseling subordinates can be an issue. I think the best lesson I have learned in the last couple years is from my BN CDR. If you don't just "make" the time to do this you will never "find" the time. Counseling MUST be a priority in your battle rhythm.

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SFC (Join to see)

10 y

1SG Whitman

You are exactly correct, and during my time in the unit that became 4/2, that was always the hardest thing because of our OPTEMPO, but its no excuse because without it its doing a disservice to our Soldiers.

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CPT (Join to see)

10 y

1SG Whitman,

I agree 100% that we as leaders MUST MAKE the time to give counseling the emphasis it deserves. I've seen it get bad on the officer side of the house. More than once I have gotten an initial counseling several months after I was in a new position. And follow ups were rare until it was time for the OER. I've even had some officers tell me all my counseling would be informal discussions until it was time for my OER. It doesn't have nearly the same effect. Amongst my senior raters, written counselings were the exception rather than the rule. If us officers can get our act together, maybe the proper emphasis on counseling can eventually be demonstrated for the NCOs...

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1SG Alan Bailey

Posted 10 y ago

I feel as a Army that counsel "cookie cutter" than actual good, honest counseling. As 1SG and BN OPS SGT i recieved outstanding initial and quarterly counseling, there was no questions on my left and right limits and expectations, and that is what I expect from my rater.

I have seen too many times at all ranks, a verbal you are responsible for this and this and that would be the limit of your initail and the next thing you get is a COR or Annaul NCOER, this is the wrong answer. It sets the rater and senior rater up for NCOER that is not very truthful and the rated Soldier with not knowing how to improve themself.

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1SG Shane Hansen

Posted 10 y ago

I force my commander to give me my quarterly counseling, mostly turns into an OPD on how to do counseling, but hey, it gets done. I require feedback because I like to constantly improve upon my self and my goals.

As for the NCOs in my company, I ensure they are getting their quarterly counseling from the PSG or PLT LDR as required. I inspect the counseling records monthly to make certain the 2166-8-1 is being used appropriately. The same goes for the young Soldiers, their counseling packets are inspected monthly as well to ensure they are personalized and not cookie cutter. You know the old saying "what gets checked, gets done."

I have set in on a few of their counseling sessions also, just to see what techniques they are using and to make sure it is not a one way conversation. After watching a few of them, I trust they are doing the right thing.

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SFC (Join to see)

10 y

1SG Hansen, you are spot on. Counseling is so important, and its sad that it isn't done correctly, more often.

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CPT (Join to see)

10 y

1SG Hansen, my PSG did the same thing with me when I was a PL. He first had me watch him counsel one of our squad leaders and then he sat down beside me at my desk and walked me through 2166-8-1 step by step. His example went a long way. When I took command and counseled my Detachment Sergeant, it was too easy. He turned around and did the same for the NCO's he rated. I think it all boils down to leadership by example. Counseling was done, checked for accuracy and completion, and "cookie cutters" were a non issue for us.

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SSG(P) (Join to see)

10 y

1SG how do you make your rater counsel you. In the four years I have been an NCO, I have been told to write my own by my leaders, even being told by one of my PSGs that "everybody writes their own, and how can you expect me to know what you've done anyway?" I have begged to be counseled on what I can do to improve, and was once asked, "does all counseling have to be written?" I didn't know, and was emphatically told NO. Since then, I've read the AR 623-3, and the PAM 623-3, and have seen that the quarterlies (of which I have received none) -are-, I am suspecting that all Army counselings should be recorded. So how can I make an apparently lazy leader counsel me?

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Counseling....Are we doing it right?

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