Posted on Feb 7, 2014
Double Standards for senior and junior ranks?
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Whats your opinion on military double standard? For example, Im a SPC(P) and if I was to fail a height/weight I would be flagged and barred, plus I'd lose my promotable status. If a SFC or MSG was to have the same scenario, would they face the same repercussions? Do you believe standards should be enforced Army wide regardless of rank?
Another example, theres a MSG I know that got a DUI after his SFAAT mission and his only being "forced retired". I would like to hear other peoples opinions on this.
Standards
Policy
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 20
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If the SFC or MSG were promotable sure they would lose their status, the difference between a SFC/MSG and you is it takes a letter to HRC requesting to remove their status unlike with E5/E4Ps it takes a simple counseling statement and unit action. As in your other scenario of the MSG being forced to retire, is that not punishment enough? Do you thinks the MSG should be busted down and then kicked out?
Each installation handles punishing all who receive a DUI differently but most CGs reserve the right to punish the soldier through a General Officer Memorandum of Reprimand which can be filed in a soldiers permanent file and that serves as the punishment. Again, units do things different. Some follow that DUI up with an Administrative Reduction Board for NCOs or reduction 4187 for E4 and below.
Each soldier's infraction and the punishment given must be weighed differently because not every situation is exactly the same. There are numerous other personal and professional issues that are examined when recommending to the commander what punishment that soldier truly deserves, to include weighing in their service record.
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SFC Stephen P.
Reduction in grade isn't much of an additional punishment in conjunction with the high 36 retirement plan (in effect for everyone who joined since 1980).
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CSM (Join to see)
Well there's a couple of things to think about here. If they are not put out by a QMP or QSP board and choose to serve the chances of them being promoted or very slim, even more so as a senior NCO. I personally don't see the point of demotion as demoting someone doesn't change their retirement pay necessarily because that is formulated off of years of service. In my opinion the pressure of being forced to retire would be enough punishment.
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SGM (Join to see)
1SG Rink has a valid point - it is harder to demote a senior NCO opposed to a junior NCO or even a Soldier. The fact of the matter is most commands see the time that NCO or senior leader has invested into the Army and they allow a forced retirement opposed to the long drawn out legal process of trying to reduce the NCO/Leader.
DUIs are a VERY sticky subject in the military. Just because you get arrested for a DUI doesn't mean that will be what you end up with after a court battle. I have seen too many DUIs get busted down to fatigued driving because the person paid $3,000 for a decent lawyer. Once it is downgraded you lose the battle through the Army to take heavy action.
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SGT Kristin Wiley
If a junior enlisted and a senior NCO both got a DUI, the senior NCO should have the more harsh punishment despite how hard it is to enforce the punishment. We are not sending a good message to our troops if we allow senior leaders to get off with a slap on the wrist, but aggresively punish our juniors. A senior NCO is aware of the regulations and holds a level of responsbility that should make it completely unacceptable to be drinking and driving. It is unacceptable either way, but a senior NCO has more responsbility. How can we expect he/she to be responsbile for others when they are not accountable for themselves? At the very least punishment should be equal accross the board, but punishing juniors mores stringently is wrong.
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I just seen a 1SG have his diamond removed and be flagged for being overweight. It happens in the senior ranks just because you do not see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. That 1SG got off the program but he didn't get his job back; now he is retiring. He has served his country 20+ years and wanted to do more but now he has to hang it up.
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1SG Michael Minton
as a Spc, there are many things that happen that you will never see or hear about. It dont take much in a senior NCOs record to force them to retire or QMB gets them. i had SFC get QMP with 17 years in for dui's over his career. he had one or two when he was a young soldier when they were exceptable, but times changed and he got one later in his career and got booted. and most !SG would be relieved if they got DUI, when is pretty much the end of their career and they will retire before QMB gets them. I dont know of anybody that gets discharged under UCMJ for a DUI, but it does end any hopes of a career, whether your a SPC or a 1SG.
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SPC Corie Davis
I agree with 1SG Minton, I didn't know half the stuff was going on till I worked as the clerk in our company. Sometimes its better to just go about your day and keep doing whats right and not worry about the higher ranks then you. Have trust in your command they will do whats right no matter the rank if they are a good command.
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
SSG,
Thats kind of my point, by your statement, we're saying that a senior leader can get away with doing wrong. Simply because they have 19+ years in. I understand that the Army has spent more money and time training them then they have on me. But standards are standards. And its up to NCO to enforce those standards.
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
SPC I was and still do bring situations like that to light, my old NCO said a few things to me. First being just like SSG Turkezer said " do what your rank can handle" then " RHIP " AND lastly just take pride in upholding the standards and affecting change within your bubble. I don't if you have Soldiers already or not but when you do those troops are your Army. Ensure all the standards are upheld and there are no double standards. That will be throughout your career. That's almost all you can do.
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
Great point SGT. I always try to make sure the soldiers that with me are within standards.
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