Posted on Feb 8, 2014
SFC Air Defense Enhanced Early Warning System Operator
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I know the book answer is all of them, but if this is the case why do we not do some things "on line". The largest one I see is "When
an NCO of superior rank enters the room, the first soldier to recognize the NCO
calls the room to “At ease.” " The following are just a few courtesies listed in FM 7- 21.13


• When talking to an officer of superior rank, stand at
attention until ordered otherwise.



• When you are dismissed, or when the officer departs, come
to attention and salute.



• When speaking to or being addressed a noncommissioned
officer of superior rank, stand at parade rest until ordered otherwise.



• When an officer of superior rank enters a room, the first
soldier to recognize the officer calls personnel in the room to attention but
does not salute. A salute indoors is rendered only when reporting.



• When an NCO of superior rank enters the room, the first
soldier to recognize the NCO calls the room to “At ease.”



• Walk on the left of an officer or NCO of superior rank.



• When entering or exiting a vehicle, the junior ranking
soldier is the first to enter, and the senior in rank is the first to exit.



• When outdoors and approached by an NCO, you greet the NCO
by saying, “Good morning, Sergeant,” for example.



• The first person who sees an officer enter a dining
facility gives the order “At ease,” unless a more senior officer is already
present. Many units extend this courtesy to senior NCOs, also.



• When you hear the command “At ease” in a dining facility,
remain seated, silent and continue eating unless directed otherwise.




Is it okay to pick and choose due to practicality? I would love to hear from both Enlisted and Officers on this matter. 



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Responses: 8
SGT William Howell
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The one that stands out for me is my 1SG would make sure that the lowest rank always ate first when we were eating as a unit. He would call you out in a heartbeat if you were chowing down while PVT Snuffy was standing in line. This included officers. I always respected him for it.
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Sgt Mike Jacobi
Sgt Mike Jacobi
7 y
My Vietnam Vets Chapter treated the Army Band to a steak BBQ dinner. It was great to see the first sgt line up the troops for chow with lowest ranking first. When the troops were all taken care of the 1st Sgt reported to the officer in charge that the troops had their dinner, whereupon the Commander told him "fine, you get in line, I'll be right along". That's a great illustration of how it should be but sadly in my experience, seldom was.
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CPT William Jones
CPT William Jones
>1 y
General policy on the chow line in units I was in was in garrison officers ate when they were able be it first or last. Many times meal time was spent working(the CO called meeting). Also in garrison if something ran out the mess sgt would be able to get something for everyone. In the field officers would eat last to insure all junior troops had chow.
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SFC James Baber
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As has been stated in many numerous other posts similar in topic, the military has been operating a dual war focus for over the past decade and most of the junior NCOs and Officers are not used to conducting business in a garrison environment so the basic skills and C&C have been lost in the transition. We have promoted and advanced too many people to leadership positions before they were properly mentored, taught and enforced the reality of standards over the last 10+ years and this is a portion of those lacking capabilities. Many of those young leaders of today are not enforcing it for the two main reasons of not knowing it themselves or not being mentored to enforce it as well.


We have to start from scratch and rebuild the knowledge base and suffer through the rough transition phase of re-enforcing the overlooked standards.

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SFC Air Defense Enhanced Early Warning System Operator
SFC (Join to see)
10 y
Thank you for your reply. I work in TRADOC where these customs and courtesies are upheld on a daily basis. But when I encounter troops that have made it to their unit, (Fort Sill maintains Training and FORSCOM ADA Units) one complaint is that they are pretty much harassed and hazed for doing these things (standing at Parade rest for an NCO and they receive the response "You are no longer in TRADOC") With the large CAPE push to get back to basics and transition to a more professional Army, how do we ensure that these customs and courtesies are reintroduced? We have had an entire fiscal quarter dedicated to re-instilling these traditional values, but I have seen no noticeable differences in the young troops I encounter (not so much as a greeting of the day during most encounters). If the Army is serious about the professionalism movement there needs to be a check at the lower levels. My follow up question is to the First line leaders out there, how do you explain/train your soldiers in customs and courtesies? What works, what doesn't?
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SFC (Join to see) I loved working in TRADOC. The only place I have ever worked that maintained an accurate long/short range training calendar. Sometimes I still think it was a mythical place compared to the rest of the Army.
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LTC Paul Labrador
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Edited 10 y ago

SSG Love, I would say the use of some of these courtesies really depends on the situation.  I work in a hospital on a daily basis and aside from the room coming to attention when the Commander comes into the room for the morning Commander's Report (or being called to attention when he first comes in in the morning), or standing and saluting when he leaves, a lot of the "old school" Army courtesies are impractical for the job we are doing and in the setting we are doing it in.  I actually find it annoying when I talk to some of the junior medics who are doing MPT in my ER and they snap to attention when I'm trying to teach them something.  I feel they are paying more attention to trying to stand at attention then paying attention to what I'm trying to teach them (ironic isn't it?).


That being said, I always try to walk to the left of a senior officer and give the greeting of the day as appropriate.

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SFC Air Defense Enhanced Early Warning System Operator
SFC (Join to see)
10 y
LTC Labrador, Thank you for your insight. I can understand why these items can be impractical in your situation. I agree there is definitely a time and place for everything, as evident by lack of saluting in the field. As a senior leader do you feel these C&C  are still necessary in 2014? I ask due to the Doctrine 2015 movement, where now would be the time to make any changes to C&C, I understand the relevance of tradition but is there a point where out with the old and in with the new should be embraced partially if not fully?
 
Do you (and your NCOs) continue having your soldiers practice these "Old Army" C&Cs even though they are impractical?

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LTC Paul Labrador
LTC Paul Labrador
10 y
I think we should always try to apply common sense to the use of C&C.  Again, I work in a hospital so I already work in a relatively unorthodox setting when compared to normal garrison duty locations.  I think C&C should be taught and used in initial entry training and situations.  We should all know what "right" looks like after all.  However, as the settings and situations change, we should apply C&C as appropriate.
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