Posted on Jul 30, 2020
Is there anyway I can get out of a 5-17 chapter?
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This time last year I had my first ever mental breakdown. I was hospitalized for having suicidal ideations, I was diagnosed with depression and had to be seen at the behavior health. With only being seen TWICE my bh provider diagnosed me with personality disorder. I may not be a psychologist but I’m not stupid. It takes more than 2 meetings to really understand and diagnose someone. I then asked to seen by someone else, they gave me the chief of the clinic. She said because of my hospitalization it was unlikely for me to stay in but I made it known to her that I would do whatever it takes to stay in. She recommended that I get out but said it was possible to stay in if i went to therapy and actually talked. This was a few months after my breakdown and I was still struggling on getting back to myself but was hopeful in my army career because my 1st SGT told me he would me help me. A couple weeks later and my unit is getting ready for deployment, not sure if I was going because I was non-deployable. Out of nowhere My platoon nco gives me clearing memo for a 5-17!! I wasn’t aware of it, no one told me anything. So in confusion I go speak to my 1st SGT about it. Totally uninterested in what I had to say he tells to go speak to my bh provider because it came from her. Well I did exactly that, when I went to her and asked, she told me that my command team wanted to go forward with a 5-17 and that she supports their decision. We talked about going to therapy and moving forward but my command team and provider never told me anything about a chapter. 7 months later my unit is deployed and I’m still pending separation. I was told by my nco that my chapter packet didn’t have any evidence of “adjustment disorder” there’s no paper trail because I don’t have a bad record, but the chapter is still being pushed through. Now I have to get a lawyer to fight it. My ets date is 6 months out. I just want to ets , I don’t deserve this chapter. Am I wasting my time fighting this chapter or do I have a chance?
Posted in these groups: 
Officer Separation Board (OSB)
Fort Stewart
Officer Separation Board (OSB) Fort Stewart
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 6
You will not be able to stop a Ch 5-17 and you shouldn't try. The CH 5-17 is addressing the causes that lead to your break down. It takes about a month for the decision to be made to the approval of a 5-17. The decisions is not with that provider. The findings go to another senior provider and they make the assessment. I would not feel comfortable myself with you deploying. The Army is not a place for that. I would have much rather seen my friends get separated from the Army then go on and commit suicide. In reality that is what happens. If you think you are going to deploy and get the care you need then you might end up as a statistic. I would urge you to get the care you need and more on to a place that is better for you. These providers are there to maintain the force and take care of Soldiers. If a Soldier requires care that is beyond the scope needed that makes them deployable then you are not fit for the Army. It is a tough situation but the Army has readiness standards.
Also, I can tell you how the process works. I have separated several Soldiers for a 5-17.
You have an incident that requires BH care. After your care you will be recommended to be evaluated for your continued service. The BH provider will make an assessment and it will be reviewed by another provider to validate the findings. You would be assessed as not fit for service. You CoC will initiate a separation packet and you will receive a "Letter of Intent." This is what you just received. You will have a chance to go to legal and they will review the findings. They can not stop it but they will just make sure they abidded the proper legal process and then you will be given a separation date. The signing authority for this would be a COL. I have learned to trust a COL. I think he knows the needs of the Army and the unit. I have seen many try to fight it but the issue is that there was an BH episode. You already said that you trying to get back to yourself. The Army isn't a great place to deal with this. When you can't deploy it forces another Soldier to work more and it will strain the unit. This is why we separate Soldiers. I would look toward another option in your life beside the Army. Trust me, I have seen some people get out of the Army and flourish. Turn your story into a victory lap of your personal success and not the end of your dream.
Also, I can tell you how the process works. I have separated several Soldiers for a 5-17.
You have an incident that requires BH care. After your care you will be recommended to be evaluated for your continued service. The BH provider will make an assessment and it will be reviewed by another provider to validate the findings. You would be assessed as not fit for service. You CoC will initiate a separation packet and you will receive a "Letter of Intent." This is what you just received. You will have a chance to go to legal and they will review the findings. They can not stop it but they will just make sure they abidded the proper legal process and then you will be given a separation date. The signing authority for this would be a COL. I have learned to trust a COL. I think he knows the needs of the Army and the unit. I have seen many try to fight it but the issue is that there was an BH episode. You already said that you trying to get back to yourself. The Army isn't a great place to deal with this. When you can't deploy it forces another Soldier to work more and it will strain the unit. This is why we separate Soldiers. I would look toward another option in your life beside the Army. Trust me, I have seen some people get out of the Army and flourish. Turn your story into a victory lap of your personal success and not the end of your dream.
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CPT (Join to see)
CSM Mark Gerecht I do agree with what you're saying. I have that with many of these types of chapters. The soldiers are always afforded the opportunities to challenge them. The issue is that the provider and the brigade Commander are the ones who make a final decisions. Whenever I would counsel a soldier I will let them know that the brigade Commander would have to make the decision and that I trust their decision. We could go back and question a Colonel's decision but then we would be looking at a whole nother issue all together.
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CSM Mark Gerecht
CPT (Join to see) I agree with that assessment totally. I was making the assessment from a position based on the Soldiers response. If they did not get a fair shake. They need to put their case together and change the decision of the CDR. No with that said I would agree without compelling evidence it would be difficult to overturn the decision
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SPC (Join to see)
Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post sir, but I would like to say that there definitely is more to story. I was denied access to be seen at a different clinic after I stressed that I was uncomfortable with the providers at my unit BH. The chief of the clinic informed me that because of my pending chapter I wasn’t allowed to be seen by any other facility. I was forced to stay at that clinic or pay out of pocket for a therapist.
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CPT (Join to see)
SPC (Join to see) - Unlike the civilian sector you are assigned your BH care providers. You can't just request to see another doctor. The work load is already high enough for just seeing one patient. The issue isn't the care providers to be honest. The issue is the incident that triggered them to get involved. When it gets to that level then you are subject to the Army's process of treatment and possible separation. I have been in the Army roughly about 20 years. If the Army said I was done and wanted to separate me then I would do my part but then I would be subject to the outcome. That is how it is supposed to work in the Army. Years ago it used to be different but now readiness is the number one issue. If you are not able to deploy with your unit then you may not be suited for the Army. A lot of these treatment plans take a long and that makes you non-deployable. I know it isn't want you want to here but I am trying to help you be realistic.
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Please read AR 635-200 page 59. There are other requirements of the regulation that must also be met. You have several courses of action. If you want to discuss email me at [login to see] . Provide your phone number and a good time to call.
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As stated by others, a Congressional inquiry is the way to go at this point (provided your have done as stated). As for your NCO, he is wrong-I see the paper trail (in my mind) just based on what you stated in your text. A Congressional will wrap it all up in a tighter package, better for you to understand. Reach out to your Congressman.
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CPT (Join to see)
This is not the correct path or recommendation. With a 5-17 the Soldier will be scheduled an appointment with legal to explain what is happening with the process and the evidence for the 5-17. I have had two congressionals for 5-17s so far. Both ended with a simply memo explaining the process was completed within regulation. The issue is the Soldier may not be able to understand the process. Suicidal ideation is enough to start a CH 5-17. When it is in the early stages you can't pull all of the medical papers from the providers. This will play out in time.
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CSM Darieus ZaGara
Sir, that is exactly the point. He has not been (through his statement) been afforded this opportunity. As it appealingly has been mishandled, a Congressional will in fact motivate rear detachment and legal to properly evaluate and administer the chapter. So, in my opinion he should contact his. Ongressman and even the IG office. The more he initiated the better the resolution.
In a perfect world things happen the way they should, in the normal world one sometimes requires additional support. CPT (Join to see)
In a perfect world things happen the way they should, in the normal world one sometimes requires additional support. CPT (Join to see)
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CPT (Join to see)
CSM Darieus ZaGara - Once you get a "Letter of Intent" it is to let you know that it is the commander's intent to discharge him. It will state why also. I believe he knows why he is is being recommended for a discharge.
This works the same way as an Article 15. He was there for an incident. The incident was the mental breakdown. The process will start and then the Soldier will get to address it. With a Article 15 you will have a hearing. With a Ch 5-17 you will be scheduled to attend a meeting with a JAG. Before all of this happens the provider will have to send back the form recommending the action and then the SM will be read an official memo stating the actions and the next step. This SM is in the early stages of this. It sounds like he only has a letter of intent. If the commander hasn't read his initial finding and recommendation for the chapter then the Legal office hasn't drafted it yet. You have to let the process play out. You can not be chaptered without a signature from a JAG lawyer or an COL. There is a time and a place to review the process. It is with the legal team. The reason why this happens is that they need to be able to ask questions to the correct people. If not they will not understand the process and the what it means. I have been through 2 congressionals. The SM didn't understand the process and the BDE JAG just had a one page reply, both time, and they went away.
This works the same way as an Article 15. He was there for an incident. The incident was the mental breakdown. The process will start and then the Soldier will get to address it. With a Article 15 you will have a hearing. With a Ch 5-17 you will be scheduled to attend a meeting with a JAG. Before all of this happens the provider will have to send back the form recommending the action and then the SM will be read an official memo stating the actions and the next step. This SM is in the early stages of this. It sounds like he only has a letter of intent. If the commander hasn't read his initial finding and recommendation for the chapter then the Legal office hasn't drafted it yet. You have to let the process play out. You can not be chaptered without a signature from a JAG lawyer or an COL. There is a time and a place to review the process. It is with the legal team. The reason why this happens is that they need to be able to ask questions to the correct people. If not they will not understand the process and the what it means. I have been through 2 congressionals. The SM didn't understand the process and the BDE JAG just had a one page reply, both time, and they went away.
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