Posted on Feb 7, 2021
LT Surface Warfare Officer
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When I commissioned out of the enlisted ranks, I wanted to make sure I stayed humble. I was the first to admit that ensigns were noobs, and that there was nothing about my rank that granted me or my ideas some high status. "Hell," I joked once on my first week aboard to my division, "I still need directions to find the head."

Although good in a lot of ways -- folks came to me with problems I don't they would have otherwise -- there were huge setbacks I struggled to handle. Over and over again, my presence would make my Sailors get *very* comfortable in how they spoke to me. I once had an argument with one of my E-6s after he explained to me how he decided whose orders he followed. In his logic, he didn't actually have to listen to someone unless they were simultaneously older, higher ranking, paid more, and had been in longer. Miss one of the blocks, and he doesn't really have to do what you say. Again, Ensign Me actually allowed this to become a debatable back and forth until it occurred to my LCPO that we could be heard on the other end of the barge.

Now I teach leadership and ethics at an NROTC Unit, and I tell these tales to my midshipmen as "what NOT to do". It's not a problem for me now because, frankly, I know what I'm doing, but I still get the cocky Sailor who decides to debate the merits of rank with me. How do you folks handle these things (i.e., your people growing so comfortable with you that they cross the line of professionalism and start explaining how they don't *actually* have to follow your orders)? Shake your head and walk away? Blow up on them? Respectfully explain the concept to them, but chance allowing it to be a debate when it is, in fact, not up for debate? I've found my own path forward, but I wanted to hear some thoughts from this community that I might take back to my midshipmen as "diverse words of wisdom".
Posted in these groups: Leadership development Leadership DevelopmentZgvwznrr9psdw5lzq6y7ihp6r9qhpdfhlbomkkkntap1slsxqwsblel onis9qdww00l q s85 Disrespect
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CPT Assistant Operations Officer (S3)
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Edited >1 y ago
I am prior enlisted too. I have had my share of issues. Whenever I come into a leadership position I explain how we will operate together. I also explain that there will be times we can discuss our actions and then there will be times I expect them to follow my orders. I did have a situation to where I lost faith in a subordinate leader. I went to the senior leader in my company and informed him that I wanted him relieved. He was moved shortly there after. You can't let that fester. You are running into some systematic issues here. He fails to understand his role in the military. He is there to lead his enlisted service members and follow the orders of those appointed over him. The issue is once you lost the confidence of those you work with you won't get that back. Even if you do they will resent you. It's a dangerous place. I know I am in the Army but this is wild to me. As a Captain in the Army we are company commanders. I have only seen once instance where an enlisted Soldier contested his commander. It was a toxic relationship. If this was happening I would try to have a professional counseling session. Do not do a heart to heart. You are not his peer. You are the leader. When you have a heart to heart sometimes you can empower the other party to feel like they are your equal. You are a team but you are the team leader. He has to understand how your team works. If he continues to cross the line I would relieve them.
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LT Brad McInnis
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Sorry, but I guess it was different when I was in. I was prior, too, and if a sailor came put me and told me his "criteria" for who he would follow orders from, it would have taken me less than a nano-second to grab his CPO and get him in the bilge with a toothbrush scrubbing !
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LT Surface Warfare Officer
LT (Join to see)
>1 y
Yeah, my LCPO was watching the whole thing shaking his head as if to say, "Classic Petty Officer [redacted], no filter."

Interestingly, a new Air Defense Officer showed up a few months later (this guy was a LT prior Chief OS) and had a similar interaction with this Sailor and wondered to me if he had given him too much latitude.
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CWO3 Us Marine
CWO3 (Join to see)
>1 y
LT (Join to see) - Maybe that LCPO shouldn't be leading. He might have asked for some private time with the PO1 - a hint for you to leave. The right language should sink in. The Chief might use words like liberty risk, needle gun, daily mid-watches, cross training in engineering spaces etc. A CPO has more experience and can get results. Either with carrot or stick. Call it an off the record counseling. If nothing changes, then make it official with a direct counseling, provided he is in your charge. Just don't argue. If it gets to that point lock him up at attention and have a one way conversation in the least public manner, low voice and not in plain view of others. Many JOs get tested in the manner you describe, if that provides solace.
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CWO3 Us Marine
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Find his LCPO, he should handle it. If not the CMC will. A lot of the Chops, Chengs, and Bos'ns on amphibs I sailed on were seasoned Mustangs, and they had a low tolerance for BS like that PO1. Better to let the Chiefs handle it IMO. Argument ends as a loss for you. If he's a hard case, XOI and Mast are in his future.
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