Posted on May 9, 2021
Is there a regulation that deals with when a soldier lets a military vehicle run out of fuel?
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We had a soldier not check fuel level and let a LMTV run out of fuel on a mission. Granted he was the TC (E-4), is there any type of regulation or counseling template I can use in order to take care of this?
Posted 3 y ago
Responses: 13
You don't need a regulation to replace common sense. A counseling is not a reprimand. Whatever you would day out loud you just put on the counseling. It can read like this:
Don't do dumb stuff. Vehicles need fuel. If you drive off without fuel that's dumb. Always fuel before driving.
Don't do dumb stuff. Vehicles need fuel. If you drive off without fuel that's dumb. Always fuel before driving.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
I like that, short and simple. I will add that the young CPL should find a fueling requirement in the unit SOP. I would also advise that he start inspecting a random vehicle in his section before every mission. If it isn't inspected, it isn't done. I would grab a driver and do PMCS on his vehicle even as the CO.
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SGM (Join to see)
You will need two references.
For you, ATP 6-22.1.
For the Soldier and the counseling, TM-9-2320-365-10.
The counseling plan of action might include corrective training, that should be the counseled SM conducting PMCS on an LMTV, possibly also teaching PMCS on an LMTV to others.
The LMTV gets around 8 MPG, leaving the motor pool/fuel point with less than a full tank is stupid, and contrary to the TM and any SOP you might have.
For you, ATP 6-22.1.
For the Soldier and the counseling, TM-9-2320-365-10.
The counseling plan of action might include corrective training, that should be the counseled SM conducting PMCS on an LMTV, possibly also teaching PMCS on an LMTV to others.
The LMTV gets around 8 MPG, leaving the motor pool/fuel point with less than a full tank is stupid, and contrary to the TM and any SOP you might have.
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Back in my Heavy Engineer days, it was SOP to refuel the vehicle after EVERY mission outside of the motor pool and as needed when in the field. Part of the PCC/PCI and PMCS of that vehicle before it rolls out is to check the fuel levels. Both the Driver AND the TC failed and both need to be counseling.
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CPL (Join to see) Good question... are you wanting to document the event or impress upon him what consequences could have happened, or maybe did happen, due to his negligence?
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SGT (Join to see)
CPL (Join to see) - Your Command should be able to answer your question... but I tend to agree with SFC (Join to see) advice. Have you ever thought your Command may be seeing how you handle this situation if there were not any major consequesnces as a result of his actions. If there were none... talk to your Command about what SFC (Join to see) suggested;
"Is this worth hanging paper on a Soldier or could it be dealt with as teaching and learning experience with the caveat it will be a formal counseling if it happens again?"
What can it hurt? IMO.
"Is this worth hanging paper on a Soldier or could it be dealt with as teaching and learning experience with the caveat it will be a formal counseling if it happens again?"
What can it hurt? IMO.
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SFC (Join to see)
Are they requiring a formal counseling session? Will the command accept an informal counseling? It’s worth asking for additional guidance. If they want it to be formal, search the regs for what was done incorrectly, check the PMCS checklist to see if fuel level is there. If it isn’t, ask for a copy of the local SOP stating a full tank is required. If you’re formally counseling a Soldier it’s because they did something wrong. If it was wrong it should be in writing somewhere. The Army loves putting things in writing. If it isn’t I’m writing, work with your CoC and see if they’ll support an informal counseling until “full tank” is on paper somewhere. You never know. It may be. Our written SOP was “no vehicle is parked with less than 1/2 tank of fuel”.
https://capl.army.mil/atp-6-22x1/web/counseling-fundamentals.html
CPL (Join to see)
https://capl.army.mil/atp-6-22x1/web/counseling-fundamentals.html
CPL (Join to see)
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1LT William Clardy
With all due respect,CPL (Join to see), it *is* your choice. If you write up a formal counseling statement, it will be your signature at the bottom, not someone on your NCO chain of supervision or your chain of command.
So whatever you write down should reflect what you think needs to be said, including any mitigating factors or corrective training (see SFC (Join to see)'s "Don't do dumb stuff" example).
So whatever you write down should reflect what you think needs to be said, including any mitigating factors or corrective training (see SFC (Join to see)'s "Don't do dumb stuff" example).
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SFC Casey O'Mally
CPL (Join to see) - You have been ordered to counsel. However informal counseling is *still* counseling. Not a card to play all of the time, but it *is* a card to play SOME of the time. If you truly feel that this is an event that does not need to be documented, you have a loophole.
Personally, I would believe that this is something that *should* be documented. I would be looking at a line of counseling involving dereliction of duty. Yes, running out of gas is small. So is *checking* the gas. But the small things become big things quickly in combat. And had that been a convoy in combat, this could have become very big very quick. I understand it *wasn't.* But we sweat in peace so that we don't bleed in war. Time to impress on this young Soldier the importance of peaceful sweat - and maybe even induce a bit of sweating. Just my $0.02.
Personally, I would believe that this is something that *should* be documented. I would be looking at a line of counseling involving dereliction of duty. Yes, running out of gas is small. So is *checking* the gas. But the small things become big things quickly in combat. And had that been a convoy in combat, this could have become very big very quick. I understand it *wasn't.* But we sweat in peace so that we don't bleed in war. Time to impress on this young Soldier the importance of peaceful sweat - and maybe even induce a bit of sweating. Just my $0.02.
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