Posted on Jun 3, 2015
CDR Michael Goldschmidt
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Midshipmen had to pass tests to become LTs. Does this historical difference still affect our services' officers in any way?
Posted in these groups: Officers logo OfficersUs army ranks 319 Commission
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Responses: 11
LTC Paul Labrador
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Historically, the big difference was naval officers had to be technically competent and have enough experience to run a highly complex piece of equipment that was a sailing ship. Being a seaman was a fulltime profession. Army officers (except artillery and engineers) for the most part didn't need that depth of technical experience.

That being said, does that affect our officer corps today? Nope, not since the abolishment of purchased/political commissions and the advent of uniform commissioning requirements.
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LTC Jason Mackay
LTC Jason Mackay
9 y
My interaction with some Naval Officers have indicated a hull inward focus for junior officers and XOs and Captains have more of a outward look. Army and Marine officers have been acting increasingly independent over the last 30 years
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Capt Mark Strobl
Capt Mark Strobl
9 y
COL (Join to see), I'll have to assume by the disposition of your comment that you have had no command at sea and minimal understanding of the demands upon a Naval Engineering Officer. Those SWO's, at whom you cast a tongue-in-cheek job critique, have provided ground-pounders plenty of NGS missions through the years. Their "working" environment is different. But, their leadership challenges are the same as yours: Accomplish the Mission.
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COL Strategic Plans Chief
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9 y
Amen, sir. I argue using only tactical decision making in the execution of a combat mission in the face of an enemy, at which point the engineer can do many things, but none provide him the ability to adapt to his situation in combat as his role is very specific and directed from a centralized command situation. He does not have the latitude to change something to "meet the intent" of the commander as he is required to act as a part of a larger system in order for it to perform his mission. He must accomplish the "what," lest the ship not take the actions necessary under the commander's orders.
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COL Strategic Plans Chief
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9 y
To caveat, there are likely positions for junior officers where tactical decision making is fostered in relation to the overall performance of a ship. I chose the engineer due to the technical aspects required versus the tactical aspects. Even a mechanic in the Army gets to make tactical decisions as a private. He can stay and fight, he can maneuver as a part of a team, he can flee, he can chose to engage with his M4 or grenades or a crew served weapon. In adition to these, he has the technical decision making requirements of the day to day job...what to do with this vehicle at that time in order to get the fleet as a whole to a better operating rate. But, in the end, he is a weapon system, and he gets to make those decisions himself. I see this as vastly different from the decision making of sailors. Not better or worse, just different, and it produces vastly different types of decision makers as they get higher in the rank structure.
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CPT Assistant Operations Officer (S3)
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This isn't exactly true. From the start of our nation Militias were started like this and commissions in militias were pretty much given out. But militias weren't regular military units but were still used by Army commands. States formed standing Army units, in the continental Army and their officers were appointed. Getting an appointment as an officer had to do with education levels and wealth. But if you were an idiot you usually didn't get a Colonelship. George Washington himself saw issues with the Army and tried to standardize his Army prevent a person from becoming a GEN without being able to lead.

Now during the civil war these became a serious issue. You have state militias and Army units. There were two different types of units. A issue was that they were never really standardized still. Most of the officers came from the regular Army. They are the ones that were trained in war and made an impact. The officers from Militias were really never allowed to assume major commands. If they they you would see the term Brevet General at times. It is like getting flocked in reverse. You are given all the authority in that position of command you were in but if you move out of that command you lose the rank and title. They wanted it to be known that they were not actually that rank so the term Brevet was included.

In 1878 the federal government redefined how state guards or militias would be structured. This would led to how the National Guard is set up. In times past a Regiment would wildly vary is size. By this the officer in charge of a REG would not be equal to a peer with another REG due to that size of the REG. This prevent this from happening and standards for officers were set a cross the army.

Just not that the Army has always had a much larger need for officers than any other branch, to include the Navy. You could look a the Civil War and see how many were killed and realize they had to replace officers quick. If you were wealthy you really would ideally make a good officer. You knew how to manage your own estate already and you had a life to come back too. In theory this person was successful in life so they should be successful in the Army.
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CPT Assistant Operations Officer (S3)
CPT (Join to see)
9 y
CW2 Carl Swanson - The civil war did see some rapid promotions. This would occur when they wanted federal officers other State units. In addition a lot of the Adjutant Generals are actually their rank. In most states they are appointed by the Gov, although one state still has an elected one I think. But when they are appointed they do become a MG but they are not federally recognized. Our AG in our state went overseas as an envoy of some sorts and wore only one star. First, when the Gov picks one they usually pick a senior commander. It is pretty rare for one to pick a MAJ. That hasn't happened in my state ever. But while they are a State appointed MG while they are Federally recognized COL they will promote in the Federal System when they make time and met the requirements. They really don't have too if they don't want but if they want to move up they will have to do this. In NC we had a AG pick up his 3rd Star by moving into a Federal billet with the NG as the Army National Guard Director. If you didn't have a FED REC as a two star you couldn't do this. If they didn't have any ambition they really wouldn't have too. But if they ever left the state or went on a Federal mission they would have to revert to their FED REC rank.
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CW3 Kevin Storm
CW3 Kevin Storm
9 y
CPT (Join to see) - South Carolina still publically elects the TAG.
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CPT Assistant Operations Officer (S3)
CPT (Join to see)
9 y
CW3 Kevin Storm - Was the only. They changed that last year.
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MAJ Ronnie Reams
MAJ Ronnie Reams
9 y
My boy,Bill! He is retired now.
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PO1 John Miller
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While it may not affect the different branches officers in any way anymore, I'm going to have to say that Navy officers are the best simply because I was in the Navy, lol...
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