Posted on Feb 19, 2023
What is the "Win-Loss" ratio of OPFOR against Rotational Units at the CTCs (JRTC, NTC, etc.)?
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I heard the other day that "Geronimo" at the Joint Readiness Training Center (JRTC) remains UNDEFEATED. Is this true? If not, what is their "Win-Loss" ratio against rotational units?
What is the Opposing Force (OPFOR) "Win-Loss" ratio against rotational units at the other Combat Training Centers (i.e. National Training Center, Joint Multinational Readiness Center)?
In other words, how often did the OPFOR succeed in preventing the Rotational Unit from achieving their assigned Mission, Task, and Purpose?
(Be advised: not interested in "Learning is Winning," "Homefield Advantages," "Winning is not the purpose of the CTC rotation," "OPFOR Cheats," etc... Just need the win-loss ratio of OPFOR against Rotational Units.)
What is the Opposing Force (OPFOR) "Win-Loss" ratio against rotational units at the other Combat Training Centers (i.e. National Training Center, Joint Multinational Readiness Center)?
In other words, how often did the OPFOR succeed in preventing the Rotational Unit from achieving their assigned Mission, Task, and Purpose?
(Be advised: not interested in "Learning is Winning," "Homefield Advantages," "Winning is not the purpose of the CTC rotation," "OPFOR Cheats," etc... Just need the win-loss ratio of OPFOR against Rotational Units.)
OPFOR
Edited 1 y ago
Posted 1 y ago
Responses: 11
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The NTC OPFOR definition of a win was at least 1 MRB on the OBJ at change of mission in the 90s. Not sure what that looks like now.
The NTC Leadership was always sensitive to NOT publish this data.
The NTC Leadership was always sensitive to NOT publish this data.
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LTC Jason Mackay
SPC Gary C. 177th Support Battalion, the Maintenance Troop RSS when they reflagged. 94-98
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Having served as the CSM over training in Europe, including the JMRC and participated in multiple senior leaders conference regarding all aspects of the training centers and their operations. I never saw any official statistics. The OPFOR had their own gage for discerning a win but that was an internal thing.
The only thing I would recommend is that you contact the Ops SGM for each center and ask.
Although you said you didn’t want to hear it; the OC’s frequently inject stressors on the unit in session, such as taking out key leaders, disabling a vehicle for poor maintenance checks etc., providing intel to the OPFOR in order to see where the unit needs more depth. So, the OPFOR can never truly claim a win, the only winner is the unit.
When we deployed our OPFOR to Afghanistan they had all of the same issues and struggles that regular tactical unit had during a rotation.
Good luck in your search.
The only thing I would recommend is that you contact the Ops SGM for each center and ask.
Although you said you didn’t want to hear it; the OC’s frequently inject stressors on the unit in session, such as taking out key leaders, disabling a vehicle for poor maintenance checks etc., providing intel to the OPFOR in order to see where the unit needs more depth. So, the OPFOR can never truly claim a win, the only winner is the unit.
When we deployed our OPFOR to Afghanistan they had all of the same issues and struggles that regular tactical unit had during a rotation.
Good luck in your search.
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I know you said this isn't what you are interested in, but I have to ask what you define as winning?
I have done three rotations through JRTC and two through NTC. I have done countless rotations through "lesser" training exercises on both red and blue teams. And I can tell you that each and every time, the mission focus and purpose was at least a little bit different.
The couple times I was on the red team, I had one where our ROE were to be as sneaky and underhanded as possible. Lie, cheat, steal, deceive, wear "civilian" clothing, create insider threats, you name it. Our goal was to help the unit identify as many security holes as we could. And we did. We "won" because we achieved our mission which was unit readiness. They won because they identified the holes and fixed them. We also killed more of them than they did of us. But they killed ALL of us. So who "won?"
My other ROE was to be very conventional. Always uniformed, standard weapons, no civilian targets, etc. To fight like the US fights. We managed to do some damage, including taking out two mission critical resources. But they held their ground and ultimately took the objective, even if they took heavier than projected casualties. So we killed more than we should have, including mission critical assets. But they o
ultimately took the objective. So again, who "won?"
I have done three rotations through JRTC and two through NTC. I have done countless rotations through "lesser" training exercises on both red and blue teams. And I can tell you that each and every time, the mission focus and purpose was at least a little bit different.
The couple times I was on the red team, I had one where our ROE were to be as sneaky and underhanded as possible. Lie, cheat, steal, deceive, wear "civilian" clothing, create insider threats, you name it. Our goal was to help the unit identify as many security holes as we could. And we did. We "won" because we achieved our mission which was unit readiness. They won because they identified the holes and fixed them. We also killed more of them than they did of us. But they killed ALL of us. So who "won?"
My other ROE was to be very conventional. Always uniformed, standard weapons, no civilian targets, etc. To fight like the US fights. We managed to do some damage, including taking out two mission critical resources. But they held their ground and ultimately took the objective, even if they took heavier than projected casualties. So we killed more than we should have, including mission critical assets. But they o
ultimately took the objective. So again, who "won?"
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LTC John Wilson
That is a decent request. Win = Defeat of the BLUEFOR, I.E. prevention of them achieving their objectives for a given operation (Mission, Task, Purpose); Loss = Failure to prevent BLUEFOR achieving their objectives for a given operation (Mission, Task, Purpose).
Using your example for the purposes of illustrating what I am looking for: You "won" as an OPFOR each time you were able to exploit the unit's security beyond what would be considered an appropriate level, and they "lost." If the task was "Secure" -- i.e. "A tactical mission task that involves preventing a unit, facility, or geographical location from being
damaged or destroyed as a result of enemy action." Then if you damaged or destroyed that thing being "secured" as the OPFOR, then you "won," REGARDLESS of what the Unit LEARNED from the encounter.
The enemy will ALWAYS "lie, cheat, steal, deceive, wear "civilian" clothing, create insider threats, you name it.." If the unit fails to anticipate the enemy and is unable to carry out their mission, task, and purpose, then they have LOST.
Using your example for the purposes of illustrating what I am looking for: You "won" as an OPFOR each time you were able to exploit the unit's security beyond what would be considered an appropriate level, and they "lost." If the task was "Secure" -- i.e. "A tactical mission task that involves preventing a unit, facility, or geographical location from being
damaged or destroyed as a result of enemy action." Then if you damaged or destroyed that thing being "secured" as the OPFOR, then you "won," REGARDLESS of what the Unit LEARNED from the encounter.
The enemy will ALWAYS "lie, cheat, steal, deceive, wear "civilian" clothing, create insider threats, you name it.." If the unit fails to anticipate the enemy and is unable to carry out their mission, task, and purpose, then they have LOST.
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SFC Casey O'Mally
LTC John Wilson In that case, sir, I would say that my unit has "won" every rotation we have gone through. We took every objective we were supposed to take. Usually with higher losses than we would like, but we took the objectives.
In the defense phase (on those rotations we had one) we held our objective. We almost always had at least one breach, but the breach was secured and the objective was held.
And the times on was on OPFOR our assigned mission was NEVER to win. It was to test, probe, identify weaknesses, etc. We were never intended to actually seize objectives, nor were we expected to actually hold the ones we started with. We were always expected to either die or flee, the question was how many we could take with us. But by the "How many did you kill?" metric, OPFOR won more often than not.
And I think this highlights a big problem with the recent COIN fight. Insurgents could care less about holding ground. They care about body counts. If they can take out 20 of us while they slowly give up the valley, they think they won. Meanwhile we claim victory because we hold the valley. And they flee to the next valley over, and cost us another 20 to take that one. Eventually, we can't actually HOLD all the valleys - we don't have enough manpower. So by the time we have cleared out the 5th valley or the tenth or the fifteenth, they are back to the first one.
And we BOTH think we are winning the entire time.
In the defense phase (on those rotations we had one) we held our objective. We almost always had at least one breach, but the breach was secured and the objective was held.
And the times on was on OPFOR our assigned mission was NEVER to win. It was to test, probe, identify weaknesses, etc. We were never intended to actually seize objectives, nor were we expected to actually hold the ones we started with. We were always expected to either die or flee, the question was how many we could take with us. But by the "How many did you kill?" metric, OPFOR won more often than not.
And I think this highlights a big problem with the recent COIN fight. Insurgents could care less about holding ground. They care about body counts. If they can take out 20 of us while they slowly give up the valley, they think they won. Meanwhile we claim victory because we hold the valley. And they flee to the next valley over, and cost us another 20 to take that one. Eventually, we can't actually HOLD all the valleys - we don't have enough manpower. So by the time we have cleared out the 5th valley or the tenth or the fifteenth, they are back to the first one.
And we BOTH think we are winning the entire time.
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