Posted on Mar 6, 2023
If I was awarded an MSM in a combat zone can that be upgraded to a BSM?
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My understanding is that the MSM is a peace time award and that the BSM is the war time medal. Thank you
Awards
Medals
42A: Human Resources Specialist
Posted 1 y ago
Responses: 16
You CAN be awarded a BSM in a hostile zone, but that doesn't mean you WILL be awarded one instead of a MSM.
MSMs and BSMs are equivalent (at least in the eyes of the regulation), so there is no "upgrading". However, if your award was given for service under combat conditions (i.e., a fire fight, under imminent danger of hostile action, etc) and not just "in a combat zone" or "during a period of conflict" then you could ask that the award be reconsidered.
The key there is if the write-up is for "combat performance" then you might have a case with HRC .. if you don't, then it's not going to go anywhere (unless you can show that others were given BSMs for the exact same actions ... but even then, it's unlikely because BSMs and MSMs are on the same level as an award).
MSMs and BSMs are equivalent (at least in the eyes of the regulation), so there is no "upgrading". However, if your award was given for service under combat conditions (i.e., a fire fight, under imminent danger of hostile action, etc) and not just "in a combat zone" or "during a period of conflict" then you could ask that the award be reconsidered.
The key there is if the write-up is for "combat performance" then you might have a case with HRC .. if you don't, then it's not going to go anywhere (unless you can show that others were given BSMs for the exact same actions ... but even then, it's unlikely because BSMs and MSMs are on the same level as an award).
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Sgt Bob Corridan
I was discharged from the Corps December 19th 1969...it wasn't until June of 1972 that I was awarded the Bronze with V and I had no idea I was put in for the medal...the only thing I can think of is because of action at the battle of Dai Do, Quang Tri Province 1968 with 2/4 Golf.
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Sgt Ron Harris
Sgt Bob Corridan - You know the government moves slow. I was discharged on 29 Oct 69, after 16½ mo. in country. 52 years later, after receiving 100% SCD due to Agent Orange, I received a package containing a Vietnam SM w/2 stars, a Good Conduct SM, an Expert Marksman SM, and a National Defense SM, all w/ribbons. Go figure.
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It can. But only with a whole lot of high level review and proof that the original award was a MASSIVE oversight/error.
We have recently seen a significant number of valor award upgrades. And by significant I mean in the tens. Covering 80 years and hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of awards. So is it possible? Sure. Is it probable? Not likely.
About 15 years ago, the Army did a hard pivot and opened "garrison" awards to deployed actions. If your award is for non-combat activity - and in this case, combat means direct force-on-force stuff - then the MSM is fully valid according to the latest Army guidance.
As a senior medic, the chances are good you were back on a FOB or in a CASH. So, unless you were out on the battlefield, performing TC3 under direct fire, that MSM is most likely going to stand.
Exact same thing for me. I am an Intel weenie. I did theater-level stuff. Plus I ran around 75 missions through Kabul doing secret squirrel stuff with next to no direct support. Me and the two guys in my truck, and another truck with three guys 500m away, and that's it. Took direct fire around a dozen times - but we had armor and just drove through, rather than engaging. Translation: MSM, because no actual combat. Just combat support.
We have recently seen a significant number of valor award upgrades. And by significant I mean in the tens. Covering 80 years and hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of awards. So is it possible? Sure. Is it probable? Not likely.
About 15 years ago, the Army did a hard pivot and opened "garrison" awards to deployed actions. If your award is for non-combat activity - and in this case, combat means direct force-on-force stuff - then the MSM is fully valid according to the latest Army guidance.
As a senior medic, the chances are good you were back on a FOB or in a CASH. So, unless you were out on the battlefield, performing TC3 under direct fire, that MSM is most likely going to stand.
Exact same thing for me. I am an Intel weenie. I did theater-level stuff. Plus I ran around 75 missions through Kabul doing secret squirrel stuff with next to no direct support. Me and the two guys in my truck, and another truck with three guys 500m away, and that's it. Took direct fire around a dozen times - but we had armor and just drove through, rather than engaging. Translation: MSM, because no actual combat. Just combat support.
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AR 600-8-22, Paragraph 3-16, the MSM may not be upgraded to or downgraded from a recommended Bronze Star Medal.
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COL Randall C.
What it actually says is not state across the board that "the MSM may not be upgraded to or downgrade from a BSM", it says that the exception to policy that the G-1 granted for a MSM to be awarded in a combat theater for noncombat "does not authorize the MSM to be used as an upgrade or downgrade to or from a recommended BSM."
A MSM and a BSM are at the same "level" as far as awards are concerned. A downgraded BSM is approved as an ARCOM.
It's OBE though because based on the writeup above, a MSM is an appropriate meritorious award. IF there was something to substantiate an oversight, it could have been submitted for reconsideration (a long shot), but there is nothing for that basis.
A MSM and a BSM are at the same "level" as far as awards are concerned. A downgraded BSM is approved as an ARCOM.
It's OBE though because based on the writeup above, a MSM is an appropriate meritorious award. IF there was something to substantiate an oversight, it could have been submitted for reconsideration (a long shot), but there is nothing for that basis.
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