Posted on Aug 14, 2015
Sun Glasses while doing PT. Semantics or badly worded AR?
14K
38
13
5
5
0
Interesting conversation with another NCO this morning.
2 of my soldiers were wearing sunglasses while conducting a release ruck march.
Mind you we are in Fort Carson, and one of the first thing the CG will tell all newcomers is WEAR YOUR SUNGLASSES when outside, UV Rays are roughly 30% "stronger" due to elevation and thinner/clearer air.
So this NCO calls me to the side and asks me why my soldiers are wearing sunglasses during PT to which I replied that they are not in formation and they are outside. In Garrison.
He then tells me that they cant wear them because is PT. And there are no sunglasses during PT.
So I roughly explained that both AR 670-1 and our own Fort Carson Standards Blue Book specifically tell us that soldiers can wear sunglasses "when in a garrison environment, except when in formation and while indoors".
Semantically, BOTH conditions have to be met. Formation AND indoors.
Otherwise, the regulation would say formation OR indoors.
One way or another, since my soldiers were not in formation, and definitely outdoors, I allowed them to wear their sunglasses.
Is this another one of those "this is how we've always done it" things? No sunglasses in PT just because someone doesn't like it?
2 of my soldiers were wearing sunglasses while conducting a release ruck march.
Mind you we are in Fort Carson, and one of the first thing the CG will tell all newcomers is WEAR YOUR SUNGLASSES when outside, UV Rays are roughly 30% "stronger" due to elevation and thinner/clearer air.
So this NCO calls me to the side and asks me why my soldiers are wearing sunglasses during PT to which I replied that they are not in formation and they are outside. In Garrison.
He then tells me that they cant wear them because is PT. And there are no sunglasses during PT.
So I roughly explained that both AR 670-1 and our own Fort Carson Standards Blue Book specifically tell us that soldiers can wear sunglasses "when in a garrison environment, except when in formation and while indoors".
Semantically, BOTH conditions have to be met. Formation AND indoors.
Otherwise, the regulation would say formation OR indoors.
One way or another, since my soldiers were not in formation, and definitely outdoors, I allowed them to wear their sunglasses.
Is this another one of those "this is how we've always done it" things? No sunglasses in PT just because someone doesn't like it?
Standards
Regulation
PRT (Army)
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 8
4
4
0
One of the most hilarious quirks of the military is the intersection between practical reality and spit and polish from the 19th century.
(4)
(0)
3
3
0
Common sense dictates wear of sunglasses. Few NCOs or officers would challenge such a reasonable precaution. This reeks of busybodies with nothing better to do sticking their nose in training.
If the eyewear is APEL approved eye-pro, no one should be dishing out guff.
I would have a hard time keeping tactful if some Muldoon approached my ruck march with this junk.
If the eyewear is APEL approved eye-pro, no one should be dishing out guff.
I would have a hard time keeping tactful if some Muldoon approached my ruck march with this junk.
(3)
(0)
SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA
1SG (Join to see) it did bother me a bit, but not so much that I didn't forget about it after a few hundred yards of intense sweating.
The interesting thing is, however, that our Fort Carson regulation removed the "in formation" part of the sunglasses wear authorization.
So as per Fort Carson Standards, soldiers are allowed to wear sunglasses "in a garrison environment, except while indoors".
So, in Fort Carson, we are allowed to wear sunglasses while in formation outdoors.
That's a double rebuttal of the NCO that was adamant about no sunglasses during PT.
The interesting thing is, however, that our Fort Carson regulation removed the "in formation" part of the sunglasses wear authorization.
So as per Fort Carson Standards, soldiers are allowed to wear sunglasses "in a garrison environment, except while indoors".
So, in Fort Carson, we are allowed to wear sunglasses while in formation outdoors.
That's a double rebuttal of the NCO that was adamant about no sunglasses during PT.
(2)
(0)
TSgt Joshua Copeland
Carlson is already breaking normal protocol (lower level commands can only be more restrictive) by allowing them in formation outdoors. Now they are likely applying a common sense leadership approach an calling the sunglasses PPE (because of the UV being 30% stronger) and making a GOOD leadership call and basically loopholing it rather then outright breaking/bending the rules.
(2)
(0)
2
2
0
Realistically the reg probably should say or but regardless of that. Based on your statement they were not in a formation anyway so they SHOULD (by the regulations you cited) be allowed to wear sunglasses unless someone can pull out a lower level guidance that further restricts its.
On the AF side it is no sunglasses inside OR in formation just for a compare and contrast.
On the AF side it is no sunglasses inside OR in formation just for a compare and contrast.
(2)
(0)
SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA
TSgt Joshua Copeland the reason why this resonates with me is because well, I'm a bit of a semantics fanboy.
Mean what you say and say what you mean kind of guy.
I did have a soldier that argued this with me one time, as she was wearing her sunglasses during an accountability formation last year.
She intelligently argued that since the formation was outside, she was allowed to wear them. This is where the AND instead of an OR is important.
"in formation AND while indoors" 1 + 1 = sunglasses during ANY outdoors formation
"in formation, and while indoors" 1 = 1 = no sunglasses at ANY formation
"in formation OR while indoors" 1 = 1 = no sunglasses at ANY formation
1SG still had her remove her sunglasses mainly because he was losing the argument.
But she did have a point, and that's what brought me to this morning's Q&A with the fellow NCO.
Mean what you say and say what you mean kind of guy.
I did have a soldier that argued this with me one time, as she was wearing her sunglasses during an accountability formation last year.
She intelligently argued that since the formation was outside, she was allowed to wear them. This is where the AND instead of an OR is important.
"in formation AND while indoors" 1 + 1 = sunglasses during ANY outdoors formation
"in formation, and while indoors" 1 = 1 = no sunglasses at ANY formation
"in formation OR while indoors" 1 = 1 = no sunglasses at ANY formation
1SG still had her remove her sunglasses mainly because he was losing the argument.
But she did have a point, and that's what brought me to this morning's Q&A with the fellow NCO.
(1)
(0)
(1)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google