Posted on Apr 1, 2014

Can the Chain of Command confiscate a Soldier's POV keys?

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I have run into this in the past and the answer always ended up being no, but can a Platoon Sergeant confiscate a Soldier's vehicle keys?  The situation was that I was talking with an AIT PSG recently about this and he said it is unit policy to take IET Soldiers' keys upon arrival to the AIT and the keys are held until the Soldier passes an APFT.  When I was an AIT PSG, one of my Soldiers got a ticket on his motorcycle on post and the 1SG took the keys.  The next day, the LTC at JAG called up to the unit to tell us to give the Soldier's keys back because it is illegal to take them, and that if anything happened to the POV while we had the keys, we would be personally liable for any damage. What are your thoughts and/or experiences on this?  Is it legal or illegal?  If legal, are there stipulations as to how it must be done (CO has to be the one to take the keys/counsel the Soldier, etc.)?

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Driving

Posted 10 y ago

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Responses: 16

SFC (Join to see)

Posted 10 y ago

In everything I have come across, it is not within the rights of the unit to confiscate the keys, however it is within the units right to restrict driving privileges.

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SFC James Baber

Posted 10 y ago

This just proves how the PC police and lawyers have changed things for the worse. It used to be that Soldiers to include prior service SMs were not allowed to have access to their POVs while in AIT, while they may be allowed to drive to the AIT site to attend school, they were not allowed to drive, with maybe being given an exception by 1SG for a weekend pass and that depended on their current school grade and APFT for the schoolhouse. As an MP, I knew plenty of units that would call the PMO and ask if it was ok to take a Soldiers keys from them, and we would give them examples of when it was valid, suspected under the influence of drugs or alcohol, expired registration or insurance, failed POV inspection; and all of these authorized key confiscation and securing of keys with either 1SG/CO. But again because someone along the way complained to their congressman or family, the PC police had the regulations changed to try and claim that the unit/CO would be responsible for any damage even if it couldn't be proved towards any member of the unit, just because they had the keys. Another sign of softness coming in and taking precedence over doing what is right to enforce standards.

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SFC James Baber

10 y

SPC Thundercloud,

Those are some of the things I mentioned that were known to me as well, you had to be pretty much cream of the crop for the re-class SMs as well (APFT, Passing all school tests, Room inspection passing and Class A's). They are a good command and control mechanism as you mentioned, I think it is one of the few that is actually still in place that can actually be utilized as many other have been taken away from CADRE and not left them much to work with for teaching and instilling discipline and responsibility in new and/or young SMs that may or may not have had any given or taught to them before coming into service. We all know you do not fall into that category as you have shown time and time again you are a superb Soldier and a potential great NCO in waiting. Keep up the great work you do and your "big picture" attitude and mentality it will take you far in our Army.

SSG Brown,

I agree much has changed for the AIT students and most of it has not been productive (cell phones 24/7, TVs and Video game system in the barracks rooms, automatic civilian clothes on the weekends, etc.). Even when I went through ASI classes with new Soldiers many times, I had to earn certain privileges as well right along with them and I understood the mentality and reasoning behind it even being a CPL/SGT.

My last duty station being a TRADCO post I saw many of the changes and much more problems from them than prior to the changes. I also saw where the re-class SMs were in a completely different set of barracks away from the initial AIT SMs as well, to prevent certain issues and to grant them certain privileges that the regular AIT hadn't earned or couldn't have as of yet.

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SPC (Join to see)

>1 y

Uhm screw that, it's my personal property. If anyone tries to take my keys they can go fuck themselves.

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SFC James Baber

>1 y

SPC (Join to see) - That mentality is part of the problem with our current military today.

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SPC (Join to see)

>1 y

SFC James Baber your correct I was out of line.

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SSG (Join to see)

Posted 10 y ago

I went through a similar situation in my unit. I just got to the unit and I was placed on Rear D for the birth of my son. Anywho, I was acting company 1SG and I had a soldier who actually got into a motorcycle with no PPE. Fast forward ahead as he waits for his chapter and med board paperwork to go thru, doctor diagnoses him with headaches and orders him not to drive, not to mention he was busted for underage drinking and get his license suspened. He continues to drive without a license and gets a speeding ticket on post. He is then given a field grade Article 15, now he's a fuzzy awaiting a med board paperwork and he's now going on 6 months. With this particular soldier, it was totally legal because when I had to counsel him on what he was doing, I quickly found that he wasn't the brightest of the bunch. When I inherited him as a soldier, I looked at his packet and this PSG all the way up to the CO & 1SG did everything to keep this kid out of trouble. Sadly to say, he thought he knew what was best

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SPC Charles Brown

10 y

You did the right thing. Also if you know a soldier or suspect a soldier is under the influence you can take his keys to prevent him from driving under the influence and possibly killing himself or others. At least that is my understanding.

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CWO2 (Join to see)

10 y

SGT Eashman,
Sometimes it is better to ask for forgiveness than permission. Under certain circumstances, I am sure the command would understand with you liberating keys from a member who obviously under the influence of alcohol or drugs. Just make sure you follow up the situation with documentation and have it submitted via CoC. CYA.

Cheers!

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SSG (Join to see)

10 y

Oh I did trust me. Also I forgot to mention while still waiting for his med board paperwork he pops hot for weed making the process even longer

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SSG (Join to see)

10 y

Just to clarify, I got to the unit and I was thrusted into the position of being Rear D 1SG so to speak. He seemed like a good kid when I first met him. He was always asking if I needed help, he was always helping out in the motorpool and he wasn't even a mechanic. But once I learned of his situation then I made sure that he was always in the right place at the right time. I didn't just throw him by the wayside or anything like that. It was the rest of the unit and those on Rear D who knew him who had the bad standing with him. Those on Rear D even communicated to me to make sure I stayed on him which I did. The only thing that burns me about the kid was when he was waiting for his med board paperwork, he popped hot for weed. He was given an Article 15 but now I'm told that incident just made his med board process even longer. I see him from time to time now. He was moved out of the company and now works in BDE S3 as the detail soldier

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Can the Chain of Command confiscate a Soldier's POV keys?

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