Posted on Jun 5, 2014
A "Veteran" after dropping out of boot camp? Where do you draw the line?
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I feel that a woman I know (I will leave it at that for anonymity's sake) is claiming something and taking credit for something that she didn't earn. Personally, I am an honorably discharged disabled veteran, so I feel I have a legitimate gripe here. Anyway, this woman joined the Army a decade or so ago, and quit 2 weeks into boot camp because she couldn't hack it. She claims it was due to a sprained ankle. I know many soldiers that completed boot camp after healing up from a sprained ankle. Anyway, every time Veteran's Day, Memorial Day etc... rolls around she gladly accepts accolade's in person and all over social media and acts like she deserves the title veteran. I just can't get that taste out of my mouth that this creates. At what point can someone claim that title? I figured at the very minimum graduating basic training... any thoughts?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 119
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She dropped BMT after 2 weeks due to a sprained ankle, and she calls herself a veteran...shes a hack. I don't know ANY real veterans who get all excited and expect people to give accolade's on veteran centric days. I get embarrassed whenever people just simply say thank you for your service.
When I was in BMT I developed shin splints and did my required run, every day, under required time. I was in excruciating pain, but I kept my mouth shut and did what I had to, and didn't even think about telling the TI(DI), I didn't want to get washed back or out.
When I was in BMT I developed shin splints and did my required run, every day, under required time. I was in excruciating pain, but I kept my mouth shut and did what I had to, and didn't even think about telling the TI(DI), I didn't want to get washed back or out.
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It's a shame, really... How can this woman call herself a "veteran" if she can't cut the muster in basic training? I served less than 2 years, honorably discharged, and earned a NDSM while I served, and this wannabe calls herself a veteran? I have "processed out" people in AIT, with a torn calf muscle, at that! ANYONE who quits while in training DOES NOT deserve the "veteran" title!
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In my personal opinion, you are not a "veteran" until you have served in a time of war. I do not mean that you have necessarily been on deployment, but you have at least volunteered your time to this great Country during a time that doing so was a true risk of your life. I am new to the military. I've completed BCT and am currently in IET status. Some thank me for my "service," but as far as I am concerned I've done nothing yet. I personally do not and will not consider myself a veteran until I have risked as much as my battles. As for the aforementioned woman, I applaud her efforts and am grateful for her willingness to try. However, if you can't even complete training, I don't think you are a veteran.
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Cpl Christopher Bishop
There has not been very many gaps over the past 25 years where you could find any servicemembers who have not rated the National Defense Service Medal (NDSM). Many Veterans were given it right there in Boot Camp---as the qualifier is "Joining during a known time of conflict" which we have almost been in constantly for a long time. There was a brief gap as I recall in 1994 where new personnel were arriving to report to unit without a single ribbon/medal, I believe this only was happening for about 6 months.
Im not suggesting having the NDSM is the requirement for Veteran Status...however to have/wear one at all, you must have the uniform...which means you have finished Boot Camp at the very least.
My opinion however---is that Boot Camp in and of itself is NOT "serving" but it is "training for future serving". So perhaps one of the real qualifiers is that you have to be checked into a regular unit of some kind for (whatever minimum time) as demonstrating that you were ready and worthy of that check-in (which would wipe out all those who did not actually report into a unit due to WHATEVER reasons including medical...I think the evidence that you were of value to your unit is in checking in and being ready...which means you not only endured all of the training and schooling, but if you had medical hiccups, you got them handled and returned to complete the same training and school(s). We have to go back and consider what Recruiters are looking for...and maybe they shouldn't even gain credit for you joining until the point where you actually became of any real value to a unit, your branch, or the service.
Your thoughts?
Im not suggesting having the NDSM is the requirement for Veteran Status...however to have/wear one at all, you must have the uniform...which means you have finished Boot Camp at the very least.
My opinion however---is that Boot Camp in and of itself is NOT "serving" but it is "training for future serving". So perhaps one of the real qualifiers is that you have to be checked into a regular unit of some kind for (whatever minimum time) as demonstrating that you were ready and worthy of that check-in (which would wipe out all those who did not actually report into a unit due to WHATEVER reasons including medical...I think the evidence that you were of value to your unit is in checking in and being ready...which means you not only endured all of the training and schooling, but if you had medical hiccups, you got them handled and returned to complete the same training and school(s). We have to go back and consider what Recruiters are looking for...and maybe they shouldn't even gain credit for you joining until the point where you actually became of any real value to a unit, your branch, or the service.
Your thoughts?
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I couldn't agree more. Finishing training at a minimum. Deployments make you a "combat" veteran so I don't think they are necessary, though I have been deployed myself.
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I will be honest with my opinion, regardless of who gets offended or upset about it.
Each case is unique in its own way. Generically speaking, one shouldn't call themselves a Veteran unless they have served in combat or accomplished something that amounts to great significance.. I don't care if you've been in the service for more than 10 years, if you have skated around combat deployments, or avoided leaving the country, for whatever reason, you are NOT a veteran.
And I personally like the quote that I'm sure most of you have read:
"A veteran is someone who, at one point in his/her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America," for an amount of "up to and including my life." "
Each case is unique in its own way. Generically speaking, one shouldn't call themselves a Veteran unless they have served in combat or accomplished something that amounts to great significance.. I don't care if you've been in the service for more than 10 years, if you have skated around combat deployments, or avoided leaving the country, for whatever reason, you are NOT a veteran.
And I personally like the quote that I'm sure most of you have read:
"A veteran is someone who, at one point in his/her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America," for an amount of "up to and including my life." "
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PO3 Scott Bickler
SSG Johnathan Williams- I served 4 years in the US Navy as an Aviation Electronics Tech on helicopters. I had to miss my first deployment because I was injured during a pre-deployment work-up cruise (and when I say 'injured' I'm talking about a broken pelvis and a torn rotator cuff, not a sprained ankle). My 2nd cruise had my boat chasing drug runners off the coast of South America. I respect your service and especially the fact that you've been in combat, but to denounce my status as a Veteran because I never personally fired a bullet at the enemy is both ignorant and absurd.
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SSG (Join to see)
I was expecting this type of reaction. Each case is unique in it's own way. I see what both of you are saying. PO3 Bickler, after hearing your situation, I would call you a Veteran. My original comment was generally speaking, for example, I had a DS in AIT back in 03 that was a Senior E-7, never deployed, but wants to talk about "down range" and "battle buddy", etc.
Maybe I should have clarified this is my original comment. My apologies if there is a miscommunication.
Maybe I should have clarified this is my original comment. My apologies if there is a miscommunication.
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PO3 Heather B.
I know you said that each case was unique BUT anyone who volunteers and signs that enlistment contract has indeed written that blank check. Am I any less generous of a contributor (to stay with the analogy) because the United States didn't cash the check I wrote?
I flew to basic, what if my plane had crashed? I wouldn't have been on that plane if I wasn't on my way to basic. If we are on duty at all times and can be called at a moments notice to go anywhere then aren't we also active duty from the time we sign those papers and pass the screenings? What about those who served during peace time? I understand there are still missions and exercises and whatnot, but is it combat? Does it fit this definition? To base a comment like this on a few cases of people who have, let's say exaggerated their participation or just want to fit in on the smoke deck, or whatever you want to call it, and use it as a basis to paint all non-combat service members as nonveterans is a bit of a stretch, in my opinion.
As a side note, I too believe there is more to this than we know. Therefore my comments do not reflect an opinion (one way or the other) about this persons veteran status. I am simply responding to the original post about the definition of a veteran including combat.
I flew to basic, what if my plane had crashed? I wouldn't have been on that plane if I wasn't on my way to basic. If we are on duty at all times and can be called at a moments notice to go anywhere then aren't we also active duty from the time we sign those papers and pass the screenings? What about those who served during peace time? I understand there are still missions and exercises and whatnot, but is it combat? Does it fit this definition? To base a comment like this on a few cases of people who have, let's say exaggerated their participation or just want to fit in on the smoke deck, or whatever you want to call it, and use it as a basis to paint all non-combat service members as nonveterans is a bit of a stretch, in my opinion.
As a side note, I too believe there is more to this than we know. Therefore my comments do not reflect an opinion (one way or the other) about this persons veteran status. I am simply responding to the original post about the definition of a veteran including combat.
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I like a comment I read from MSG, VA states 24 months continuous service for qualification. I do believe some people go through bootcamp or are in less than that timeframe and should still qualify. By stating the oath and committing to the country in a service is a form of veteran as a patriot. This is a fine line as I had a recruit cuss out a Company Commander and quit week 1... Veteran in my eye no. So its a tough balance. But a veteran does not parade the fact they served or serve; or at least I haven't met one.
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I understand your feeling I agree with you however I do know one young man who fell of an obstacle during basic and is paralyzed from the waist down he didn't finish basic but was medically retired and drawing pay for the rest of his life. I am positive if this accident had not occurred he would have finished and served honorably. So I would say it depends on circumstances.
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