Posted on Aug 6, 2017
Alright guys and gals, I'm looking to purchase a pair of jump boots for use with my class As. What does AR 670-1 state on this?
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Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 7
You young privates really need to look into the Army Regulations for yourself and quit depending on other people to spoon feed you answers. had you been one of my Soldiers I would simply tell you the same thing, not trying to be and ass but it took you longer to type that question than it would have to look up the Regulation.
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PFC Jim Wheeler
Perhaps if you took your own advice you would know why SGT.
AR 670-1
"23–4. Former members of the Army
a. Unless qualified under another provision of this regulation, or under the provisions of 10 USC 772, former members of the Army may only wear the uniform if they served honorably during a declared or undeclared war, and if their most recent service was terminated under honorable conditions. Personnel who qualify under these conditions will wear the Army uniform in the highest grade they held during such war service, in accordance with 10 USC 772.
b. When authorized, the uniform may be worn only for the following ceremonial occasions and when traveling to and from the event. (1) When attending military funerals, memorial services, weddings, inaugurals, and other occasions of ceremony. (2) When attending parades on national or State holidays, or other patriotic parades or ceremonies in which any active or reserve U.S. military unit is taking part. Uniforms for these occasions are restricted to service and dress uniforms; the combat uniform and physical fitness uniforms will not be worn. Wearing the Army uniform at any other time, or for any other purpose than stated above, is prohibited."
AR 670-1
"23–4. Former members of the Army
a. Unless qualified under another provision of this regulation, or under the provisions of 10 USC 772, former members of the Army may only wear the uniform if they served honorably during a declared or undeclared war, and if their most recent service was terminated under honorable conditions. Personnel who qualify under these conditions will wear the Army uniform in the highest grade they held during such war service, in accordance with 10 USC 772.
b. When authorized, the uniform may be worn only for the following ceremonial occasions and when traveling to and from the event. (1) When attending military funerals, memorial services, weddings, inaugurals, and other occasions of ceremony. (2) When attending parades on national or State holidays, or other patriotic parades or ceremonies in which any active or reserve U.S. military unit is taking part. Uniforms for these occasions are restricted to service and dress uniforms; the combat uniform and physical fitness uniforms will not be worn. Wearing the Army uniform at any other time, or for any other purpose than stated above, is prohibited."
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SFC (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) - This is a "professional" online environment, where anyone from a E-1 on up, should feel comfortable asking questions to and receiving answers from, anyone up the rank ladder. Responses like this are why inexperienced junior enlisted personnel would rather listen to a barracks lawyer over asking an NCO. Instead of lecturing, why not just provide the Paragraph reference, WITHOUT the excerpt, so they know where to go, but still have to do the work to find it in the Reg. This will often be more productive, as it will at least get them to open the Regulation, rather than cause them to ignore you, and wait for someone to provide them the full answer.
Aside from that, your initial response was longer than PV2 Yazzie's questions; so by your logic, your time would have been better spent providing the answer.
Don't take any of that personally. It's the same thing I tell my NCOs.
Aside from that, your initial response was longer than PV2 Yazzie's questions; so by your logic, your time would have been better spent providing the answer.
Don't take any of that personally. It's the same thing I tell my NCOs.
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SSG (Join to see)
SFC (Join to see) - I understand that this is a professional environment, but you cant tell me that you would send away a PV2 or a PFC that had a question about a certain regulation and made no attempt to look it up themselves. I never approached a forum or even my NCOs with a question until I couldn't find the answer. People in general these days just do not put forth effort to find the answer. The question he asked could have been easily found. That's all that I was stating. If you come to me with a question about a regulation and you don't understand or know where to find the answer after doing your own research, then I would have gladly help.
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SFC (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) - I recognize we have different teaching styles. I've used online forums probably as long as you have, and I've always been the type that doesn't mind finding answers for others, and assisting them in learning to find it in the future. In those same forums, there are the direct opposites, who I call, the Search Bar Nazis, who more often than not tend to viciously attack new members who ask a question without having used the Search feature first. They tend to run off new members, and discourage interaction from others. I'm not saying you are the latter, that's just my overall forum experience.
In the Army, I am the same way. I encourage everyone to ask me anything, no matter how stupid they think the question is. Most people in the Army would rather NOT ask a question, for fear of making themselves look stupid in front of their subordinates, peers, or superiors. Like at the end of Sergeants Time Training, when we ask if anyone has questions; we know good and well those Privates and NCOs have questions, but if we aren't approachable, they won't ask, and will fail the tasks. So we have a bunch of fools walking around acting like they are informed, but are afraid to speak up to actually educate themselves. This is what creates Barracks Lawyers. Therefore, I make myself as approachable as possible, because I'd rather have informed Soldiers, than foolish ones who are afraid to ask questions.
Its a matter of preference.
In the Army, I am the same way. I encourage everyone to ask me anything, no matter how stupid they think the question is. Most people in the Army would rather NOT ask a question, for fear of making themselves look stupid in front of their subordinates, peers, or superiors. Like at the end of Sergeants Time Training, when we ask if anyone has questions; we know good and well those Privates and NCOs have questions, but if we aren't approachable, they won't ask, and will fail the tasks. So we have a bunch of fools walking around acting like they are informed, but are afraid to speak up to actually educate themselves. This is what creates Barracks Lawyers. Therefore, I make myself as approachable as possible, because I'd rather have informed Soldiers, than foolish ones who are afraid to ask questions.
Its a matter of preference.
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I have been out for a long time now, and I saw people wearing leg boots that had a high shine, but for dress purposes, I do not think you can ever go wrong with the classic Corchran jump boot. I am pretty sure that you should be able to get them at most Army Navy stores around the counrty.
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You need to look at Da PAM 670-1 para 18-4, wear of black boots mid way through the paragraph. If you buy the same model boot as what is available in MCSS, you will be AR670-1 compliant. This goes for the MCSS as well. Make sure you are looking at the 2017 PAM.
It shouldn't be too much of a mystery. When I was in the 101st, there were ample acceptable choices at MCSS and out Gate 4 at US Cav. Would recommend a jump boot that has some sort of traction on the sole. I had an ancient pair of HH Hill jump boots that were slick. Made for interesting walks in the winter.
You don't seem to be assigned to an airborne or air assault coded position, nor an MP. Wondering what the purpose of the jump boots would be?
DA PAM 670-1 18-4
b. Boots, combat: black, leather. The black combat boots are an optional purchase item.
(1) Description. The black boot is made of black leather with a deep lug tread sole made of vulcanized rubber, a re- movable cushioned insert, a closed-loop speed lace system, and a leather padded collar.
(2) How worn.
(a) Only Soldiers authorized to wear the tan, green, or maroon berets, those assigned to Air Assault coded positions, and MPs performing MP duties may wear black combat boots with the service/dress uniforms. When worn, the trousers or slacks are bloused (tucked-in or by the use of blousing rubbers/bands). When trousers or slacks are bloused, personnel will not wrap them around the leg so tightly so as to present a pegged appearance. When the trousers or slacks are bloused properly, the bloused portion of the trousers or slacks will not extend below the third eyelet from the top of the boot. Soldiers will not blouse boots so that the bloused portion extends down to the ankle area of the boot.
(b) The boots are laced diagonally with black laces, with the excess lace tucked into the top of the boot under the bloused trousers or slacks, or wrapped around the top of the boot. Metal cleats and side tabs are not authorized for wear except by honor guards and ceremonial units in the performance of ceremonial duties. When metal cleats and side tabs are authorized for wear, commanders will furnish them to Soldiers at no cost. Sewn-in or laced-in zipper inserts are not au- thorized.
(c) A vulcanized rubber sole is the only outsole material that currently meets the need for durability and traction on surfaces. Other materials (that may be of a lighter weight) may have significant problems in these areas.
It shouldn't be too much of a mystery. When I was in the 101st, there were ample acceptable choices at MCSS and out Gate 4 at US Cav. Would recommend a jump boot that has some sort of traction on the sole. I had an ancient pair of HH Hill jump boots that were slick. Made for interesting walks in the winter.
You don't seem to be assigned to an airborne or air assault coded position, nor an MP. Wondering what the purpose of the jump boots would be?
DA PAM 670-1 18-4
b. Boots, combat: black, leather. The black combat boots are an optional purchase item.
(1) Description. The black boot is made of black leather with a deep lug tread sole made of vulcanized rubber, a re- movable cushioned insert, a closed-loop speed lace system, and a leather padded collar.
(2) How worn.
(a) Only Soldiers authorized to wear the tan, green, or maroon berets, those assigned to Air Assault coded positions, and MPs performing MP duties may wear black combat boots with the service/dress uniforms. When worn, the trousers or slacks are bloused (tucked-in or by the use of blousing rubbers/bands). When trousers or slacks are bloused, personnel will not wrap them around the leg so tightly so as to present a pegged appearance. When the trousers or slacks are bloused properly, the bloused portion of the trousers or slacks will not extend below the third eyelet from the top of the boot. Soldiers will not blouse boots so that the bloused portion extends down to the ankle area of the boot.
(b) The boots are laced diagonally with black laces, with the excess lace tucked into the top of the boot under the bloused trousers or slacks, or wrapped around the top of the boot. Metal cleats and side tabs are not authorized for wear except by honor guards and ceremonial units in the performance of ceremonial duties. When metal cleats and side tabs are authorized for wear, commanders will furnish them to Soldiers at no cost. Sewn-in or laced-in zipper inserts are not au- thorized.
(c) A vulcanized rubber sole is the only outsole material that currently meets the need for durability and traction on surfaces. Other materials (that may be of a lighter weight) may have significant problems in these areas.
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PFC Jim Wheeler
I found it shortly before your post, sir.
Just for my own curiosity, does this mean that if I were to wear my ASUs to a military funeral or wedding, that I would have to wear them in the same state as when I graduated OSUT (sans rank change)?
i.e. with the black beret with no flash and dress shoes.
Just for my own curiosity, does this mean that if I were to wear my ASUs to a military funeral or wedding, that I would have to wear them in the same state as when I graduated OSUT (sans rank change)?
i.e. with the black beret with no flash and dress shoes.
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LTC Jason Mackay
PFC Jim Wheeler - you would wear it with the beret with flash. They were never really clear on veterans (vice retirees) for what unit to reflect. For retirees, you wear a Retired insignia similar to the CSIB. I would wear the last unit's DUI on your flash. I would also just wear low quarters. Not sure what wearing the ASU as you,left OSUT has to do with this.
In Leander's case as I understand it, she went to Airborne school, reported to a non airborne unit, ETSed from an Non airborne unit. She was in an ADA unit ( from her profile) which is notnauthorized wear of bloused jump boots.
23–4. Former members of the Army
a. Unless qualified under another provision of this regulation, or under the provisions of 10 USC 772, former members of the Army may only wear the uniform if they served honorably during a declared or undeclared war, and if their most recent service was terminated under honorable conditions. Personnel who qualify under these conditions will wear the Army uniform in the highest grade they held during such war service, in accordance with 10 USC 772.
b. When authorized, the uniform may be worn only for the following ceremonial occasions and when traveling to and from the event and must follow guidance included in paragraph 3–7c.
(1) When attending military funerals, memorial services, weddings, inaugurals, and other occasions of ceremony.
(2) When attending parades on national or State holidays, or other patriotic parades or ceremonies in which any active or reserve U.S. military unit is taking part. Uniforms for these occasions are restricted to service and dress uniforms; the combat uniform and physical fitness uniforms will not be worn. Wearing the Army uniform at any other time, or for any other purpose than stated above, is prohibited.
23–1. Occasions of ceremony
a. As used in this regulation, the phrase “occasions of ceremony” means occasions essentially of a military character, at which the uniform is more appropriate than civilian clothing. These functions include, but are not limited to: military balls, military parades, weddings, and military funerals; memorial services, meetings, conferences, or similar functions of associations formed for military purposes, of which the membership is composed largely or entirely of current or honorably discharged veterans of the Armed Forces of the United States. Authority to wear the uniform includes wear while traveling to and from the ceremony or function, provided the travel in uniform can be completed on the day of the ceremony or function and must follow guidance included in paragraph 3–7c.
b. All persons wearing the Army uniform will wear awards, decorations, and insignia in the same manner as prescribed in this regulation for active duty Soldiers. For civilian attire, individuals may wear only those awards, decorations, or insignia authorized by this regulation for wear on civilian clothing, in the same manner and approxi- mate location as the equivalent military uniform.
In Leander's case as I understand it, she went to Airborne school, reported to a non airborne unit, ETSed from an Non airborne unit. She was in an ADA unit ( from her profile) which is notnauthorized wear of bloused jump boots.
23–4. Former members of the Army
a. Unless qualified under another provision of this regulation, or under the provisions of 10 USC 772, former members of the Army may only wear the uniform if they served honorably during a declared or undeclared war, and if their most recent service was terminated under honorable conditions. Personnel who qualify under these conditions will wear the Army uniform in the highest grade they held during such war service, in accordance with 10 USC 772.
b. When authorized, the uniform may be worn only for the following ceremonial occasions and when traveling to and from the event and must follow guidance included in paragraph 3–7c.
(1) When attending military funerals, memorial services, weddings, inaugurals, and other occasions of ceremony.
(2) When attending parades on national or State holidays, or other patriotic parades or ceremonies in which any active or reserve U.S. military unit is taking part. Uniforms for these occasions are restricted to service and dress uniforms; the combat uniform and physical fitness uniforms will not be worn. Wearing the Army uniform at any other time, or for any other purpose than stated above, is prohibited.
23–1. Occasions of ceremony
a. As used in this regulation, the phrase “occasions of ceremony” means occasions essentially of a military character, at which the uniform is more appropriate than civilian clothing. These functions include, but are not limited to: military balls, military parades, weddings, and military funerals; memorial services, meetings, conferences, or similar functions of associations formed for military purposes, of which the membership is composed largely or entirely of current or honorably discharged veterans of the Armed Forces of the United States. Authority to wear the uniform includes wear while traveling to and from the ceremony or function, provided the travel in uniform can be completed on the day of the ceremony or function and must follow guidance included in paragraph 3–7c.
b. All persons wearing the Army uniform will wear awards, decorations, and insignia in the same manner as prescribed in this regulation for active duty Soldiers. For civilian attire, individuals may wear only those awards, decorations, or insignia authorized by this regulation for wear on civilian clothing, in the same manner and approxi- mate location as the equivalent military uniform.
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PFC Jim Wheeler
It is all a bit confusing when it comes to veterans. I only mentioned OSUT as it was the last time I wore the ASU with the lo top shoes and no unit affiliation.
You mentioned previously that the boots and beret are only allowed for wear while assigned to the unit, so it seemed like that would mean the black beret without flash would be the only appropriate headgear (similar to the uniform for OSUT graduation).
You mentioned previously that the boots and beret are only allowed for wear while assigned to the unit, so it seemed like that would mean the black beret without flash would be the only appropriate headgear (similar to the uniform for OSUT graduation).
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LTC Jason Mackay
PFC Jim Wheeler - amplification on this issue from a slightly different thread. Answers the beret DUI question. You wear your regimental distinctive insignia.
Looking at the April 2015 DA PAM 670-1 para 22-3
On the blue service and dress uniforms, retired personnel will wear the retired service ID badge (see para 22–17d(12) and fig 22–77).
I know that doesn't say DUI, hold on I'll get there. They seem to use the Army Retired ID Badge/ SSI for the greens as your "unit". So there is technically no DUI for the retired personnel. Now, if the beret is worn, that is the only time it gets complicated. No one wants to wander around like an AIT student with no DUI. Researching one other route. Stand by.
Update*************
So Para 4-10 on page 7 says: (1) Beret. Officers and WOs wear nonsubdued grade insignia centered on the beret flash, and chaplains wear their branch insignia. Enlisted personnel wear their distinctive unit insignia (DUI) centered on the beret flash. Enlisted personnel assigned to units not authorized the DUI wear their regimental distinctive insignia (RDI).
Further 21-22 page 210:
d. How worn.
(1) Enlisted personnel wear the DUI on the service uniform coat, centered on the shoulder loops an equal distance from the outside shoulder seam to the outside edge of the button, with the base of the insignia toward the outside shoulder seam. Enlisted personnel are not authorized to wear the DUI on the dress uniform
So I found you are wearing it as a dress uniform (what used to be the dress blue uniform), you don't wear them at all.
Looking at the April 2015 DA PAM 670-1 para 22-3
On the blue service and dress uniforms, retired personnel will wear the retired service ID badge (see para 22–17d(12) and fig 22–77).
I know that doesn't say DUI, hold on I'll get there. They seem to use the Army Retired ID Badge/ SSI for the greens as your "unit". So there is technically no DUI for the retired personnel. Now, if the beret is worn, that is the only time it gets complicated. No one wants to wander around like an AIT student with no DUI. Researching one other route. Stand by.
Update*************
So Para 4-10 on page 7 says: (1) Beret. Officers and WOs wear nonsubdued grade insignia centered on the beret flash, and chaplains wear their branch insignia. Enlisted personnel wear their distinctive unit insignia (DUI) centered on the beret flash. Enlisted personnel assigned to units not authorized the DUI wear their regimental distinctive insignia (RDI).
Further 21-22 page 210:
d. How worn.
(1) Enlisted personnel wear the DUI on the service uniform coat, centered on the shoulder loops an equal distance from the outside shoulder seam to the outside edge of the button, with the base of the insignia toward the outside shoulder seam. Enlisted personnel are not authorized to wear the DUI on the dress uniform
So I found you are wearing it as a dress uniform (what used to be the dress blue uniform), you don't wear them at all.
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I should clarify for everyone here,
I have been out of active duty for 10 yrs 7 months.
As I can recall AR670-1 still governs how veterans like myself should appear.
At this point I am in process of assembling my Greens or ASU blues for color guard duty or burial detail.
I have been out of active duty for 10 yrs 7 months.
As I can recall AR670-1 still governs how veterans like myself should appear.
At this point I am in process of assembling my Greens or ASU blues for color guard duty or burial detail.
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LTC Jason Mackay
With a VSO? They usually have a prescribed uniform that you may wear decorations and insignia on, but they are separate and distinct from a service uniform.
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PFC Leander Yazzie
As such my local VSO told us that we are allowed the wear of our service uniform "Greens or ASU" until they are able to acquire a distinct uniform for such activities.
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From DA Pam 670-1:
Only Soldiers authorized to wear the tan, green, or maroon beret, those assigned to air assault coded positions;
and MPs performing MP duties may wear bloused (tucked-in or by using blousing rubbers or bands) trousers with
black leather combat boots.
If that doesn't describe you, do not wear jump boots.
Only Soldiers authorized to wear the tan, green, or maroon beret, those assigned to air assault coded positions;
and MPs performing MP duties may wear bloused (tucked-in or by using blousing rubbers or bands) trousers with
black leather combat boots.
If that doesn't describe you, do not wear jump boots.
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