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So today I received a counseling pushing for UCMJ action by my NCO for defending my peer. Me and my peer and another NCO where having a conversation when my NCO intervene started yelling and blew our conversation out of proportion. So I simply ask if she was having a bad day and why she was accusing my peer of something he never said. So she wrote me a counseling stating that I allowed vulgar language, and EO and I should of correct my peer(which nothing on those lines where mention). Crazy part in that room there was 5 other SM that where commenting in our conversation( which I mentioned to her when getting counseled and got no response)but I’m the only one getting in trouble for not correcting my peer. I was thinking maybe requesting sworn statements, or what should or can do?
Posted in these groups: 
Toxic Leadership
Leadership
Toxic Leadership Leadership
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 24
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For those that say that "asking if someone is having a bad day", how would you approach someone that might be a risk of suicide? Because if that is considered sexist, then you won't be able to see if someone is going through an issue that might raise flags into a possible suicide.
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MSG Gary Eckert
The NCO was making an on the spot correction not usually a situation that indicates she was contemplating suicide. At minimum the question was disrespectful and it may or may not have been sexist. If I was counseling SPC Vela about his behavior, I would have asked whether he would have asked a male NCO the same question. It is a no win situation for him. If he wouldn’t, ask the male NCO the same question, that is sexist and violates EO. If he says yes, then he is just an insubordinate specialist. Either way he has a problem and if the NCO wanted to push disciplinary action, I would support the NCO. That is how one grows great NCOs supporting them when they do the right thing. If she found the conversation offensive, I would expect nothing less than her making the correction.
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I think you got caught in or around an inappropriate conversation by an overzealous NCO. Instead of cutting your losses and shutting your mouth, you chose to escalate the situation by asking a smart ass question. And you did it in front of everyone else. As a result you were counseled. Not punished. Not corrective training. Counseled. How is that being targeted? Soldier the fuck up and move on.
I am dismayed at how many senior NCOs and Officers jumped on the bandwagon and assumed you are a victim here. They are the reason junior NCOs have no clout anymore because anytime a SM whines about being bullied or targeted you jump right in with both feet and want to send them to see the IG.
I hope next week none of your troops are on here complaining that you targeted them. They might get advised to target your ass.
I am dismayed at how many senior NCOs and Officers jumped on the bandwagon and assumed you are a victim here. They are the reason junior NCOs have no clout anymore because anytime a SM whines about being bullied or targeted you jump right in with both feet and want to send them to see the IG.
I hope next week none of your troops are on here complaining that you targeted them. They might get advised to target your ass.
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Move forward with getting statements on what happened and how it happened. That will add clarity to the situation and sort out what actually happened.
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Suspended Profile
I would take care using the term "targeted". you appear to be "singled out" or "unnecessarily punished" but targeting implies a whole new level that could be better explained by overzealous and/or inexperienced leadership. BTW, yes get statements.
Suspended Profile
What EXACTLY was the vulgar language?
I’m not giving her a pass on losing her sh*t in front of everyone but...every situation has background details.
I’m not giving her a pass on losing her sh*t in front of everyone but...every situation has background details.
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So what was said that was out of line? What pay grade is your NCO? Did you report it to your chain of command? I agree that you should get sworn statement's. Request to see your 1st Sergeant and give him the sworn statement's. How often does this NCO reprimand you compared to your peers.
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Sworn Statements, Yes but have the other SM in the room write down what they saw and heard both before the NCO stepped in and after. You do the same.
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Sounds like you got off easy. Asking if she was having a bad day just escalated the situation. Know when to keep quite. When the anger passes then go back and see if you can explain yourself. In this situation, if you just took it and stayed silent, that would have been the end of it. If you still feel that you need to push this, there is a rebuttle area to fill out. I'd leave it alone and use it as a lesson of when to shut up.
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SGT Ricky Young
1. The NCO didn't show professionalism by interjecting in the conversation. (rule of thumb, praise in public and punish in private.
2. Loosing your temper in front of in subordinates shows lack of leadership.
3. Loosing your cool because he asked if the NCO was having a bad day shows immaturity as a leader.
Now you advise for this SPC to just shut his mouth and he got of easy. This show's why there are NCO'S that don't have the ability to lead. You can only grow as high as your leader above you. This NCO needs to have leadership training. The job of the NCO Is to lead and to develop their subordinates. What leadership lessons can be learned from this incident. We have a SPC which is a future leader. What do you think he will remember when reenlist comes. He reaching out and is trying to be professional and is asking for advice. Sounds like he could be a good NCO with the right training. I believe that his NCO is causing him to fail.
2. Loosing your temper in front of in subordinates shows lack of leadership.
3. Loosing your cool because he asked if the NCO was having a bad day shows immaturity as a leader.
Now you advise for this SPC to just shut his mouth and he got of easy. This show's why there are NCO'S that don't have the ability to lead. You can only grow as high as your leader above you. This NCO needs to have leadership training. The job of the NCO Is to lead and to develop their subordinates. What leadership lessons can be learned from this incident. We have a SPC which is a future leader. What do you think he will remember when reenlist comes. He reaching out and is trying to be professional and is asking for advice. Sounds like he could be a good NCO with the right training. I believe that his NCO is causing him to fail.
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SFC (Join to see)
Negative. That NCO showed lack of professionalism in herself. Asking is someone having a bad day isn’t disrespectful in nature. Speaking towards anger if that NCO can’t dispatch the authorities of her office without her emotions getting the best of her than she should NOT be a leader in charge of soldiers. Her supervisor needs to address that.
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If all of this is true, go get some sworn statements and, if you are actually recommended for UCMJ, don't hesitate to bring it to courts-marshall. Also, if any NCO is going to act like this, they need to be reported up your NCO support chain. This kind of ridiculous, overwrought behavior is nonsense. You should be able to use the same sworn statements when doing this. Just make sure all of the people who fill out the forms explain, in detail, the conversation, who was there, when it occurred, your actions/comments, and the inane response from the NCO.
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