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Aside from the university in California that hates America, on Facebook there seems to be an uproar about done guy taking a pic in uniform with his baby cradled in an American flag. While I can appreciate the thought, it makes me cringe. I saw many service members defending it. I will copy/paste my comment and I'd like to hear your thoughts RP.
I assure you with 13 years and counting of military service, I love this country, and I love the flag that represents it. As another individual mentioned, there is a code of customs and courtesies associated with the flag to dictate how it is handled with dignity and respect. Having the privilege to have performed military honors at funerals, I can assure you everything about handling the flag is very specific. They way it's folded, how it should appear after folding, how it it rotated to be passed to the grieving etc. Everything about how the flag is handled with dignity and respect is specific. Those practices should always be preserved to maintain that sacred presence and reverence for the flag and what it stands for. It shouldn't be used as decor or a wrap for a photo. It also shouldn't be made into clothing (bikinis, boxers, jackets, etc.). Images of the flag upon clothing are deemed appropriate, but when the flag becomes the clothing itself, or a wrap, we are not observing those customs which are intended to show respect for the flag and love of country. I can greatly appreciate the sentiment and good hearted intention behind the photo, but it over looks the practice of actually holding the flag by a high and honorable standard. I don't think it's anything worth getting worked up about as some people seem to be. At least it attempts to be a very positive image, but it does make me cringe in the same way it makes me cringe to see flag bikinis, or stroller awnings, and so on. I hope you can appreciate my reasonable approach without it feeling like an attack. Most people don't even know that flag clothing is counter to code, and wear it with the mindset that it displays pride. Again, I can appreciate the sentiment, but I appreciate the code and adherence by it so much more, because it takes greater care and effort to observe it. Have a fantastic God-blessed American day!
I assure you with 13 years and counting of military service, I love this country, and I love the flag that represents it. As another individual mentioned, there is a code of customs and courtesies associated with the flag to dictate how it is handled with dignity and respect. Having the privilege to have performed military honors at funerals, I can assure you everything about handling the flag is very specific. They way it's folded, how it should appear after folding, how it it rotated to be passed to the grieving etc. Everything about how the flag is handled with dignity and respect is specific. Those practices should always be preserved to maintain that sacred presence and reverence for the flag and what it stands for. It shouldn't be used as decor or a wrap for a photo. It also shouldn't be made into clothing (bikinis, boxers, jackets, etc.). Images of the flag upon clothing are deemed appropriate, but when the flag becomes the clothing itself, or a wrap, we are not observing those customs which are intended to show respect for the flag and love of country. I can greatly appreciate the sentiment and good hearted intention behind the photo, but it over looks the practice of actually holding the flag by a high and honorable standard. I don't think it's anything worth getting worked up about as some people seem to be. At least it attempts to be a very positive image, but it does make me cringe in the same way it makes me cringe to see flag bikinis, or stroller awnings, and so on. I hope you can appreciate my reasonable approach without it feeling like an attack. Most people don't even know that flag clothing is counter to code, and wear it with the mindset that it displays pride. Again, I can appreciate the sentiment, but I appreciate the code and adherence by it so much more, because it takes greater care and effort to observe it. Have a fantastic God-blessed American day!
Customs and Courtesies
Pride
Patriotism
Flags and Vexillology
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 93
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The America I fight for IS my family. With that said her child being held in the American flag makes me, as a combat veteran/mother myself, tear up with pride and a feeling of honor. I am sure that is exactly how this mother felt. Shame on anyone who bashes her for loving and protecting her family and America!
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I agree. The military needs to instruct members on proper handling of our flag. Not just the basics. I was never taught the procedures for handling the flag thoroughly in basic training. But i do display the proper procedures on my office wall. We need to get back to our roots and learn about sacred things like the flag. America needs to be proud. And the best way to show your pride is byrespecting and honoring sacred American traditions.
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I don't find any issue with it. With that in mind, I can see where people are upset about it. We as Americans show our flag more than any other country. This could be a case of extreme patriotism. Do I think that it should've garnered as much attention as it did: no. Is it displayed in a disrespectful manner: no. But to some, that flag is very personal, and that could be where the issue stems from.
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https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/american-flag-wrapping-baby-desecration Look at this thread for your answer SGT Joseph Jones
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Thank you all for your great input. in all honesty I'm a bit done with a million notifications haha. But really, thank you for so much input that was well thought out and a genuine discussion rather than only "well I think!". Great dialogue! All in all, I find myself much less irked by the photos than before, though I still wouldn't do it myself. I have an aversion to mushy sappy stuff my wife tries to break anyway. I even wrote to Ms. Hicks when someone provided her business contact link. Relax, I told hour how I felt about it but thanked her for the great consideration and pride behind the intent, and that I would never discourage anyone from her business because of it, including myself. Wished her the best for for and her business, so no, I wasn't a dying about it! (Is "dong" an acceptable alternative?...next discussion!)
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As a photographer, I appreciate the art that is happening here. Like many of you, I also see both sides of the argument. Is it against the U.S. Flag Code? The point could be argued. Is it done in a disrespectful way? Absolutely not. Should I go running out and blast the photographer for her use of the flag in this manner? No I won't. I'm just going to let the symbolism and artistic license be the voice here. The Dude abides.
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Is it desecration when an American Olympian just won Gold and is doing a lap with the American flag wrapped around him? I think not.
The problem lies in:
1. Sore butt complex - This occurs when the politically correct crowd start taking over. Over sensitivity runs rampant among the young and foolish and starts to spread to the older generation.
2. Social media - Enough said. Pictures, pictures everywhere. No where to hide, everyone's doing something right or wrong and getting judged. No privacy anymore.
3. American values disappearing - At what point did flag burning become cool? At what turning point in America did 'God' become evil? Schools trying to ban the American flag, you can't say the Pledge of Allegiance in schools, and now a picture of a U.S. Soldier with his child in an American flag is wrong.
I love that picture, it speaks volumes of his love for America and his child. This never should have been an issue.
But think about it, just before that, the world raged about a gold dress. Go figure.
The problem lies in:
1. Sore butt complex - This occurs when the politically correct crowd start taking over. Over sensitivity runs rampant among the young and foolish and starts to spread to the older generation.
2. Social media - Enough said. Pictures, pictures everywhere. No where to hide, everyone's doing something right or wrong and getting judged. No privacy anymore.
3. American values disappearing - At what point did flag burning become cool? At what turning point in America did 'God' become evil? Schools trying to ban the American flag, you can't say the Pledge of Allegiance in schools, and now a picture of a U.S. Soldier with his child in an American flag is wrong.
I love that picture, it speaks volumes of his love for America and his child. This never should have been an issue.
But think about it, just before that, the world raged about a gold dress. Go figure.
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What does the flag code say about using the American flag as a symbol in a creative artistic expression?
It is apparent to me; this photograph is an artistic expression. The participants are staging this event to depict something symbolic. The American flag is being utilized symbolically in this photo. There is no evidence at all that the parents of this baby actually carry the baby around in an American flag all day, or use the American flag as bedding in the baby's crib, or use the American flag as clothing.
Before this topic appeared on Rally Point I observed an article about it on Fox News. The photographer, as I recall, is the wife of a serviceman. She was subjected to heavy criticism and her life and health were threatened for taking the photograph. I find any threats against her far more reprehensible than the possibility that the photographer used the American flag contrary to the flag code. Criticism is the price one pays for expressing an opinion, even an artistic opinion intended to inspire not to offend. The reward, for the artist, is the thought that something the artist created might positively affect the consciousness of others.
I found this photograph inspiring. I'm glad the photographer shared it with us.
It is apparent to me; this photograph is an artistic expression. The participants are staging this event to depict something symbolic. The American flag is being utilized symbolically in this photo. There is no evidence at all that the parents of this baby actually carry the baby around in an American flag all day, or use the American flag as bedding in the baby's crib, or use the American flag as clothing.
Before this topic appeared on Rally Point I observed an article about it on Fox News. The photographer, as I recall, is the wife of a serviceman. She was subjected to heavy criticism and her life and health were threatened for taking the photograph. I find any threats against her far more reprehensible than the possibility that the photographer used the American flag contrary to the flag code. Criticism is the price one pays for expressing an opinion, even an artistic opinion intended to inspire not to offend. The reward, for the artist, is the thought that something the artist created might positively affect the consciousness of others.
I found this photograph inspiring. I'm glad the photographer shared it with us.
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CW3 (Join to see)
Threats of any kind for this reprehensible. I think you're missing the point though. An artist can call a flag spattered with feces "art". One could call a photo of a burning flag with it's pole jammed in a kevlared skull "art". I don't see the omission of a specific category of usage, when outlining how a flag should be handled or displayed as a green light to do as you wish with it for the sake of "art".
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Sgt Jim H.
Sure, one can call anything art. The examples you used would almost certainly be intended by the artist to be offensive not inspiring.
The photograph you referenced when starting this discussion, I believe, was meant to inspire. The artist took the photo and published it and subjected herself to immense criticism; but, that’s the risk an artist takes. Perhaps the photographer would feel validated if she knew it inspired me.
As far as the category of usage; the American flag is a symbol. Is a symbol being used as a symbol an illegal/ improper use of a symbol? The flag code provides guidelines for the dignified display of the American flag. The prohibited uses are such as: using the American flag as a blanket to protect one from the elements or to cut it into a pattern to make a shirt because there is no more material for clothes making or to use it as a window shade because the sun is bright and nothing else is available. If one did that then yes, they violated the flag code; which has no penalty assigned to it; so it’s actually legally unenforceable. Of course if the perpetrator called the acts art then they haven’t committed a violation at all.
These questions have been asked before; see SCOUS, Texas v. Johnson, 491 US 397 (1989) and US v Eichman, 496 US 310 (1990). Perhaps the SCOUS believed that to stifle the free thought/ expression of a free people was more destructive than the desecration of a symbol of free thought/ expression.
The photograph you referenced when starting this discussion, I believe, was meant to inspire. The artist took the photo and published it and subjected herself to immense criticism; but, that’s the risk an artist takes. Perhaps the photographer would feel validated if she knew it inspired me.
As far as the category of usage; the American flag is a symbol. Is a symbol being used as a symbol an illegal/ improper use of a symbol? The flag code provides guidelines for the dignified display of the American flag. The prohibited uses are such as: using the American flag as a blanket to protect one from the elements or to cut it into a pattern to make a shirt because there is no more material for clothes making or to use it as a window shade because the sun is bright and nothing else is available. If one did that then yes, they violated the flag code; which has no penalty assigned to it; so it’s actually legally unenforceable. Of course if the perpetrator called the acts art then they haven’t committed a violation at all.
These questions have been asked before; see SCOUS, Texas v. Johnson, 491 US 397 (1989) and US v Eichman, 496 US 310 (1990). Perhaps the SCOUS believed that to stifle the free thought/ expression of a free people was more destructive than the desecration of a symbol of free thought/ expression.
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I can understand where this makes some people upset. Yet, with lot of things I have done with the flag, it is one of the least disrespectful things I have seen. But I also see the symbolism that so many who have lodge complaints have missed in this.
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As it is up for opinion, I'm going to say I don't see a cringe factor at all. Perhaps you could think about ever Olympic athlete who poorly drapes our flag over their shoulders for a win that didn't involve combat. No one dumps on a large breasted NASCAR fan in a flag bikini, like this picture has caused drama for the photographer and the sailor. I've seen our flag burnt in under the guise of artistic expression and I have had to tolerate that as a first amendment right. If for whatever reason you may not back this photo, that is your right you have earned an opinion due to service. Just remember that you have also served to defend the rights of the 99% who didn't serve yet have the same rights because of your bravery. Be a patriotic individual and support the photographer and the sailor. Division of our ranks over this beautiful photo is unacceptable.
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