Posted on Feb 20, 2017
Any advice for a new Platoon Leader in regards to property management?
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I will have the honor of taking a Cav Scout platoon in a couple months. Technically and tactically I feel prepared, but I do not feel as prepared to handle property as I should be. I am seeking advice, experiences, and references. Thank you in advance!
Platoon Leader
Company Commander
Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 25
Trust, but verify.
Its not present unless YOU have seen it.
If it has a serial number, its not accounted for until YOU have seen it.
If it is not present physically, its not accounted for until YOU have the the adjustment document in your hands, or a service order that indicates in the shop status.
If its on your hand receipt account for it., after accountability .If it is not going to remain physically in your control, have the end user sign for it. Its your subordinates job to do the same, its your job to ensure they do theirs.
Everything has a TM, the TM is PART of the accountable items..if the TM is missing, you do not have full accountability., TMs show you component items, sub assemblies, and sometimes installation kits, though many times they have their own TM and UI as well. Components to includes cases, tools, non durable items COUNT as accountable items. Even non durable items should be accounted for, if not present, are they on order with valid status? Rags, lubes, ect need not be present, or even on order to consider the line item accounted for.. But you should be taking notes of what you don't have...and then dealing with that.
IF, the TM covers multiple versions of the same item, you may need an expert and informed opinion as to which sub system you are signed for, or which competent items go with your issue type or version.. The Company XO SHOULD be the property SME for the company, in concert with the supply sergeant. If at any point your just not sure..the CDR is the tie breaker. "Sir, the HR says Im supposed to have 9 ea MA1234XZ's but the TM says depending on unit they are issued to, they can come with sub component set 1a, 1b or 3c.. Which set is your company supposed to have?? He talks with his XO..and they decide component set 1a is correct.. make sure that is annotated on your HR before signature.
Installation kits are ACCOUNTABLE items as well... So not just 12ea ABC 327 Radio sets, but if they are installed in a vehicle likely they have a separate installation kit your responsible for..SOMETIMES that even includes unused cables or parts not used in YOUR specific install, but still part of the kit.
You should trust your Soldiers... Property accountability involves no trust.... its either accounted for, or its not.
You do not "trust" that item is in the shop because someone told you so.
You do not "trust" that unit is with the deployed SQD at NTC doing a 90 day tasker, because someone told you so.
You do not "trust" that item was supposed to be taking off your hand receipt two months ago, its fine Sir , we turned that in already, because someone told you so.
Its not present unless YOU have seen it.
If it has a serial number, its not accounted for until YOU have seen it.
If it is not present physically, its not accounted for until YOU have the the adjustment document in your hands, or a service order that indicates in the shop status.
If its on your hand receipt account for it., after accountability .If it is not going to remain physically in your control, have the end user sign for it. Its your subordinates job to do the same, its your job to ensure they do theirs.
Everything has a TM, the TM is PART of the accountable items..if the TM is missing, you do not have full accountability., TMs show you component items, sub assemblies, and sometimes installation kits, though many times they have their own TM and UI as well. Components to includes cases, tools, non durable items COUNT as accountable items. Even non durable items should be accounted for, if not present, are they on order with valid status? Rags, lubes, ect need not be present, or even on order to consider the line item accounted for.. But you should be taking notes of what you don't have...and then dealing with that.
IF, the TM covers multiple versions of the same item, you may need an expert and informed opinion as to which sub system you are signed for, or which competent items go with your issue type or version.. The Company XO SHOULD be the property SME for the company, in concert with the supply sergeant. If at any point your just not sure..the CDR is the tie breaker. "Sir, the HR says Im supposed to have 9 ea MA1234XZ's but the TM says depending on unit they are issued to, they can come with sub component set 1a, 1b or 3c.. Which set is your company supposed to have?? He talks with his XO..and they decide component set 1a is correct.. make sure that is annotated on your HR before signature.
Installation kits are ACCOUNTABLE items as well... So not just 12ea ABC 327 Radio sets, but if they are installed in a vehicle likely they have a separate installation kit your responsible for..SOMETIMES that even includes unused cables or parts not used in YOUR specific install, but still part of the kit.
You should trust your Soldiers... Property accountability involves no trust.... its either accounted for, or its not.
You do not "trust" that item is in the shop because someone told you so.
You do not "trust" that unit is with the deployed SQD at NTC doing a 90 day tasker, because someone told you so.
You do not "trust" that item was supposed to be taking off your hand receipt two months ago, its fine Sir , we turned that in already, because someone told you so.
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MSG (Join to see)
I agree whole heartedly if you don't see it don't sign for because in the end you will have to answer and most likely pay for it, hold those before you accountable for missing items
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Generally officers do not sign for property until they are Captains and taking command. A TTP is for the NCOs, particularly Platoon and Section sergeants to sign for property. This leaves Platoon Leaders as disinterested parties to do periodic inventories for Commanders. A Company may only have two levels of subhandreciepts in PBUSE, which will be headed into G-Army pretty soon if ain't already.
If you are going to be signed for property:
- get with the commander and the supply sergeant and ensure that you are on the same supply catalogue for sub components. The FLIPLs are usually not that your unit lost a tank, it lost all the sub component items that are not bolted down.
- don't count anything you can't touch, nor account for anything you didn't read the serial number off the data plate off of.
- if you have multiple non-serial numbered items with a separate LIN, have them laid out at the same time so you don't count the same one.
- arrange for the supply sergeant to be at your inventory so that adjustments can be made in real time, also do sub hand receipts and short annexes do not have discrepancies.
- IMMEDIATELY sign equipment to subordinate squads and individual users to ensure that you are not personally on the hook. Conduct periodic inventories, recommend monthly 10% and a 100% when a HR holder changes. Ensure items are adequately secured with key control. Conduct post field checks for losses. Report losses and initiate FLIPLs upon discovery. If you do this religiously, you won't be held liable for losses in a FLIPL.
- Read 735-5 and ensure you understand liability and the different types of responsibility. Understand the types of negligence.
If you are going to be signed for property:
- get with the commander and the supply sergeant and ensure that you are on the same supply catalogue for sub components. The FLIPLs are usually not that your unit lost a tank, it lost all the sub component items that are not bolted down.
- don't count anything you can't touch, nor account for anything you didn't read the serial number off the data plate off of.
- if you have multiple non-serial numbered items with a separate LIN, have them laid out at the same time so you don't count the same one.
- arrange for the supply sergeant to be at your inventory so that adjustments can be made in real time, also do sub hand receipts and short annexes do not have discrepancies.
- IMMEDIATELY sign equipment to subordinate squads and individual users to ensure that you are not personally on the hook. Conduct periodic inventories, recommend monthly 10% and a 100% when a HR holder changes. Ensure items are adequately secured with key control. Conduct post field checks for losses. Report losses and initiate FLIPLs upon discovery. If you do this religiously, you won't be held liable for losses in a FLIPL.
- Read 735-5 and ensure you understand liability and the different types of responsibility. Understand the types of negligence.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
I would also like to reinforce reading 735-5 and understanding your liability. I had a full time motor sergeant dodge a command inventory. Don't make my mistake, have the property book officer cut all the locks and count everything and survey every piece that you can't find. And don't listen to anyone that tells you that you don't need to do it.
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SGM Erik Marquez
LTC Jason Mackay "Generally officers do not sign for property until they are Captains and taking command. "
Sir I don't discount your vast experience, only state it is polar opposite then mine. Platoon Leaders in every unit I was in signed for their platoon property, then sub hand recited down to subordinates all the way to whoever maintained physical control. What better way to teach the methods and responsibility of property accountability to the some day soon company commander. Having spoken to more then a few company grade officers, Id venture to say they felt those actions were a vital role in their command responsibilities, to teach and mentor those junior officers in the ways and pitfalls of property accountability.
The ONLY time I found junior officers (to their disadvantage IMHO) not signing for property was in the Div staff HHBN units. Senior Staff officers in the various S shops would avoid signing for property book items, only the Warrents, NCOS and some junior officers would do so
Sir I don't discount your vast experience, only state it is polar opposite then mine. Platoon Leaders in every unit I was in signed for their platoon property, then sub hand recited down to subordinates all the way to whoever maintained physical control. What better way to teach the methods and responsibility of property accountability to the some day soon company commander. Having spoken to more then a few company grade officers, Id venture to say they felt those actions were a vital role in their command responsibilities, to teach and mentor those junior officers in the ways and pitfalls of property accountability.
The ONLY time I found junior officers (to their disadvantage IMHO) not signing for property was in the Div staff HHBN units. Senior Staff officers in the various S shops would avoid signing for property book items, only the Warrents, NCOS and some junior officers would do so
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SGM Erik Marquez
LTC Jason Mackay Sir to follow up..
Looking at your profile I realized we come from different backgrounds, yet the same as well.
W have chewed some of the same Desert sand at NTC and a few other locations as well. Heck you even served in my beloved 7th ID ..though years after I did.
Perhaps it is your CMF and unit type of assignment that to your very real yet different observations of officers not signing for property until they get to command.
I truly am trying to understand how we could have such different first hand experiences. We served in roughly the same time frame (me 10 years earlier and you one year later)
Yet i can not think of a single LT I had or knew of in the first 22 years of service that did not sign for their sections or platoon property. Only when I got to Div staff did I see that.
Perhaps Multifunctional Logistician and the typical assignments you were in were just more akin to the offciers and assignments i became familiar with at the Div level???
Looking at your profile I realized we come from different backgrounds, yet the same as well.
W have chewed some of the same Desert sand at NTC and a few other locations as well. Heck you even served in my beloved 7th ID ..though years after I did.
Perhaps it is your CMF and unit type of assignment that to your very real yet different observations of officers not signing for property until they get to command.
I truly am trying to understand how we could have such different first hand experiences. We served in roughly the same time frame (me 10 years earlier and you one year later)
Yet i can not think of a single LT I had or knew of in the first 22 years of service that did not sign for their sections or platoon property. Only when I got to Div staff did I see that.
Perhaps Multifunctional Logistician and the typical assignments you were in were just more akin to the offciers and assignments i became familiar with at the Div level???
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LTC Jason Mackay
SGM Erik Marquez - in CSS formations I have seen more often than not the NCOs are signed for it all at the Platoon Sergeant / Section Sergeant level. The one exception was when we started splitting property books for TPE and SBE. Then the Rear D OIC would sign for the SBE that was not going to care taker programs.
I understand combat arms formations are more apt to assign the property to PLs. It was not my experience in 11th ACR, nor either Company I commanded. As a matter of course, none of the HHCs I was in had officers signing for equipment, except temporarily if we ran split ops for something. I would agree that being responsible and accountable for property as a PL would be of value. This is part of the reason Company Commanders get jammed up.
After company grade, you stop signing for equipment except what is in your direct control. Consequently you start getting hit as an IO for FLIPLs, 15-6s, etc. then at BN and BDE you have prescribed roles in the FLIPL approval process.
I understand combat arms formations are more apt to assign the property to PLs. It was not my experience in 11th ACR, nor either Company I commanded. As a matter of course, none of the HHCs I was in had officers signing for equipment, except temporarily if we ran split ops for something. I would agree that being responsible and accountable for property as a PL would be of value. This is part of the reason Company Commanders get jammed up.
After company grade, you stop signing for equipment except what is in your direct control. Consequently you start getting hit as an IO for FLIPLs, 15-6s, etc. then at BN and BDE you have prescribed roles in the FLIPL approval process.
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As SGM Erik Marquez said, trust, but verify or as I say it, in God we trust in everyone else we verify. When it comes time to do a lay out, have your hand receipts ready and be ready to count. If the HR says 15 pins, then count 15 pins. Then make sure you make copies of any new or update HR for the property.
Do not accept the initial HR without the proper lay out, even if you are told there is no time. Make the time. Do not sign for anything for without putting eyes and hands on it and verify by SN.
Do not accept the initial HR without the proper lay out, even if you are told there is no time. Make the time. Do not sign for anything for without putting eyes and hands on it and verify by SN.
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