Posted on Jul 15, 2023
LCpl Kyle Kessler
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Wondering if anyone knows what this flag represents? This was found among a friend of mine’s dad’s things. His dad served in our beloved Corps in the late 40s and early 50s. Served at Camp LeJune. Thanks for any help. Get some, Semper Fi.
Edited >1 y ago
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COL Randall C.
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Edited >1 y ago
Just taking a SWAG here, but the front part is the shape of an Army, Navy or Air Force guidon. USMC guidon flags are rectangular. Like MSG (Join to see) said, I too assume the '83 is for a year (1883? 1983?)

I discounted Navy and Air Force guidons as they are a uniform color (the Air Force does have some white/blue ones).

The color scheme is not the one for cavalry units (which is red over white, not the other way around) and white over red is associated with 1st Army. However, the Army's heraldic regulation* doesn't show any 'white over red' color scheme for the service.

I have seen bad knock-offs on eBay* that showed a reversed color scheme for the red and white fields.

Between 1836 and 1841, cavalry unit guidons usually showed the regiment on the bottom in red lettering on a white field and a U.S. in white lettering on a red field.

It almost seems that someone made the guidon from a description and flipped it for the 12th cavalry. Only one problem - the 12th cavalry wasn't stood up until 1901 and by that time the guidance had dropped the U.S. on the guidon (it was only done between 1836 and 1841).
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* AR 840-10 - https://history.army.mil/html/forcestruc/docs/AR840-10.pdf
* 7th Cav Guidon (later 1830s) - https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0109/5535/8271/files/1836guidon.jpg?v= [login to see]
* eBay bad reproduction - https://www.ebay.com/itm/b0833v-US-Army-4th-Cavalry-Guide-on-1870s-thru-today-/ [login to see] 38
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Cpl Tyler F.
Cpl Tyler F.
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You have got to be one of the smartest people on this site. Every time I come on here I learn something new reading your comments. Thanks for being such an integral part of the community!
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COL Randall C.
COL Randall C.
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Cpl Tyler F. - Appreciate the compliment. No sure about 'smartest', but I'll take it. ☺
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PO3 Michael MacKay
PO3 Michael MacKay
>1 y
Well played, sir. (Hat tip)
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PO1 Kevin Dougherty
PO1 Kevin Dougherty
2 y
A quick search and I suspect your are correct. I did not see anything even vaguely resembling that for any of the other services. Maybe National Guard or a quasi military unit like Merchant Marine or NOAA?
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
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Edited >1 y ago
Not sure what the '83 represents. Perhaps the year? But, the other part being the 12 over the US with the white over red signifies this possibly to be the 12th US Cavalry. But, normally it's Red over White.
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PVT Michael Lucey
PVT Michael Lucey
2 y
Reforger 83 perhaps
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Maj Kim Patterson
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Edited >1 y ago
You need to repost this with the tags Marine and Camp Lejune or this post will just disappear.
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LCpl Kyle Kessler
LCpl Kyle Kessler
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Thank you ma'am. Done.
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LCpl Tactical Network Specialist
LCpl (Join to see)
>1 y
Clueless. And you could be right Maj.
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Any clue what this flag/decoration is?
SPC Martin Mahan
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I know I'm coming in late, and didn't scroll through all the comments, but this is an Americas' Cup Lapel Pin. Not a military decoration at all, for all that it looks like one. It can be Google searched as "Americas' Cup lapel Pin with '83"
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LTJG Jeb Raitt
LTJG Jeb Raitt
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There WAS an America's Cup regatta in 1983, and they were still using 12-metre yachts, so that seems plausible, although the colors don't appear to be of the New York Yacht Club, whose burgee is blue with a red cross with a white star in the center.
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SPC Martin Mahan
SPC Martin Mahan
2 y
It's a bit more than plausible, it's a fact. I did tell how to check it. A quick Google search. It will show others of the identical type that have been put up for sale... For instance: https://arteauto.com/products/three-america-s-cup-lapel-pins-and-one-tie-clip-from-the-personal-collection-of-briggs-cunningham
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1px xxx
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Edited >1 y ago
It's most likely a tie clip. Ask your friend if his Dad was a Scout Master in 1983, Troop 12. Maybe worn with a suit and tie when not in his Scout Master uniform.
1px xxx
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>1 y
12 CAV makes the most sense. Since I'm 99.99% sure this is a tie clip, I could guess that either the designer or the maker of the tie clip pendant made a mistake and reversed the red and white colors.
LTJG Jeb Raitt
LTJG Jeb Raitt
2 y
I concur that it's probably a tie clip. Maybe a memento of a unit reunion?
The BSA flag is red and white, but if it were a Scouting item it would probably have BSA and/or the Scout fleur-de-lys emblem on it.
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CSM Darieus ZaGara
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I am attempting to attach a document from the Marine Corp University. The 12 Marine Division has a storied history. Since your father was in the Corp this might be a good place to start. The only current 12th is an Arrillery Regiment in Okinawa I believe.

https://www.usmcu.edu/Portals/218/Brief%20History%20of%20the%2012th%20Marines.pdf
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SSG Byron Hewett
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Try The Institute of Heraldry Website that would a great place to start
https://tioh.army.mil/
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SGT Bill Braniff
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Looking at the pin, I doubt it was 1883. I would say a guidon flag? But I really don't know much about them.
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1px xxx
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Looks like an Army Cav pendant, and there in may be the issue. Some units had their own unique signature items (some Army Cav units went so far as boots, stetson's, neckerchiefs and such). Have you tried Google Lens?

Could it be that dad swapped insignia with some army guy as a souvenir ?
SGT Christopher Sigafoos
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From my research, which is admittedly limited since I'm in Washington State, that appears to be an Army Cavalry tie clip from the 12th Cavalry Regiment out of Fort Hood. The unit was established in 1901 so that clip would be from 1983.
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