Posted on Apr 18, 2016
Anyone know of an update to regulation that requires a soldier on ADOS orders to REFRAD to accept a promotion?
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Info: Situations regarding TPU (army reserve soldiers) that have applied for and been selected for a Tour of Duty (active service for 180+ days for operational support) either via MOBCOP or PFI (personnel force innovation)
These soldiers are filling much needed manpower shortages, supporting mission success. Most of the orders are ADOS orders under title 10, provision 12301 (d). These locations can be CONUS or OCONUS, including hostile regions. Soldiers can chose to extend up to 1095 days.
Problem/Questions: it seems like these soldiers (depending on their home unit) can forget about career progression if they volunteer for these positions. one unit has finally issued promotion orders that are well overdue, but added that the soldier must REFRAD to accept the promotion. Keep in mind the unit or agency this soldier is activated to has paid for the PCS move and planned funds and manpower accordingly. the other situation is a unit has completely changed the Promotion Packet Composition, Elections and Preference Sheet to include the requirement of REFRAD w/in 90 days if selected for promotion.
How can you be encouraged to volunteer yet be punished from career progression by doing so?
These soldiers are filling much needed manpower shortages, supporting mission success. Most of the orders are ADOS orders under title 10, provision 12301 (d). These locations can be CONUS or OCONUS, including hostile regions. Soldiers can chose to extend up to 1095 days.
Problem/Questions: it seems like these soldiers (depending on their home unit) can forget about career progression if they volunteer for these positions. one unit has finally issued promotion orders that are well overdue, but added that the soldier must REFRAD to accept the promotion. Keep in mind the unit or agency this soldier is activated to has paid for the PCS move and planned funds and manpower accordingly. the other situation is a unit has completely changed the Promotion Packet Composition, Elections and Preference Sheet to include the requirement of REFRAD w/in 90 days if selected for promotion.
How can you be encouraged to volunteer yet be punished from career progression by doing so?
Army Reserve Elements
HRC
Chief of Staff
ADOS
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 7
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If you are a reservist and you mobilize you are taking up a slot in your home unit. You can be gone up to 1095 days 3 years. The challenge is that when you deploy you are going to be under the supervision of the unit you are mobilized with. So you are out of sight and in order to get promoted you are trying to get promoted in a slot in your unit and you may not have been there for 3 years. However someone that is still drilling with the unit make get the promotion. It is a balancing act and the Soldier has to take responsibility for his or her career and cant put all the owness or the unit.
I used to be a mobilization officer so I saw it all the time where a person was gone 7-8 years and was taking up a look in the home unit. So I think the unit is doing the right thing by letting the Soldier Mob for the 1095 but what is the Soldier doing in return? Just something to think about.
I used to be a mobilization officer so I saw it all the time where a person was gone 7-8 years and was taking up a look in the home unit. So I think the unit is doing the right thing by letting the Soldier Mob for the 1095 but what is the Soldier doing in return? Just something to think about.
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SSG (Join to see)
The soldier is assisting in a mission. One that, is in my opinion (and others), far more important in the 'big picture' than drilling one weekend a month.
More importantly, why would anyone volunteer if they are stuck in limbo for advancement?
I'll assume when no one volunteers, it will then be filled by force with title 10, 12301(a)
How is that a better option?
More importantly, why would anyone volunteer if they are stuck in limbo for advancement?
I'll assume when no one volunteers, it will then be filled by force with title 10, 12301(a)
How is that a better option?
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CW3 Dylan E. Raymond, PHR
Yes that is correct and I understand what you are saying. If the person want to go active at least for 1095 days they should consider going active duty. If they do not have enough volunteers then they would use 12302 mobilization orders. It is designed to be short term not a long term option.
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Problem is that they are promoted into valid slots not in the unit they are on orders with. The unit they are promoted into is now short that NCO/Officer and still required to take care of that Soldier administratively as well as training. I had a Soldier like this that was promoted into my unit, with no intention of coming, but I was required to use one of my school seats to send her to school and wouldn't do any of the required things I needed from her (APFT, etc); also, we were required to produce an OER for her but had never met her. Then she volunteered for another tour. Too bad these soldiers can't get promoted into the units they're serving with, instead of the needs of the Reserves with the regular TPUs.
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SSG (Join to see)
'How can you be encouraged to volunteer yet be punished from career progression by doing so?' Did you forget who you were working for?
The soldier is not activated, but on orders...slight difference but is important. The unit with promotion responsibility should be properly processing these packets (not saying they are but they should be). Everything can be waived, if needed, or can be worked around.
'How can you be encouraged to volunteer yet be punished from career progression by doing so?' Did you forget who you were working for?
The soldier is not activated, but on orders...slight difference but is important. The unit with promotion responsibility should be properly processing these packets (not saying they are but they should be). Everything can be waived, if needed, or can be worked around.
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I wouldn't be surprised if the regulation were different when regarding officers. They often get promoted in place while they are selected for another position.
I had to leave Afghanistan two months early in order to take my CSM position because I had 120 days (more than the 90 because I was in Afghanistan).
I don't have a problem with the requirement, but I think it should apply evenly across the service and not penalize enlisted while making exceptions for officers.
I had to leave Afghanistan two months early in order to take my CSM position because I had 120 days (more than the 90 because I was in Afghanistan).
I don't have a problem with the requirement, but I think it should apply evenly across the service and not penalize enlisted while making exceptions for officers.
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1st
I think it is short sighted look at this from the individual SMperspective.
Does the unit commander to which that SM is assigned not have a DUTY to fill the ranks with soldiers that actually are physically in the unit? Should that commander not do what is allowed within the current regs to accomplish that mission?
As an individual IN THAT UNIT with the absent SM taking up a slot.. would you be ok with doing more with less, being absent that SM, that leader in YOUR unit for years at a time ?
2nd
None of this is new... I was dealing with providing NCOERs and promotion recommendations to reserve units for activated reserve SM working for me for years now... 1st time was 2000...and Id bet it goes back farther than that.. What Im implying is... this issue and circumstance the SM put them self in should not be a surprise.
3rd and last
Is it "fair" ? I guess that depends on what your looking for to answer that question.
It likely will be "unfair" to someone on one side or another no matter what. The SM that volunteered ...meaning they excepted all the nuances that go along with the vountiersiem. Or the unit that is missing a SM, used a school, promotion slot for them and never benefits from that SM.
Personally id prefer to see the SM "PCS" not just in body but in assignment as well. not being on the inside at the CORP and higher levels of a reserve program I have no doubt there is a reason they do not do that. One likely thing is, the volunteering to go active in another unit is not supposed to be a permanent deal.. hence the temporary things done why the SM is gone..that are in effect "Unfair"
I think it is short sighted look at this from the individual SMperspective.
Does the unit commander to which that SM is assigned not have a DUTY to fill the ranks with soldiers that actually are physically in the unit? Should that commander not do what is allowed within the current regs to accomplish that mission?
As an individual IN THAT UNIT with the absent SM taking up a slot.. would you be ok with doing more with less, being absent that SM, that leader in YOUR unit for years at a time ?
2nd
None of this is new... I was dealing with providing NCOERs and promotion recommendations to reserve units for activated reserve SM working for me for years now... 1st time was 2000...and Id bet it goes back farther than that.. What Im implying is... this issue and circumstance the SM put them self in should not be a surprise.
3rd and last
Is it "fair" ? I guess that depends on what your looking for to answer that question.
It likely will be "unfair" to someone on one side or another no matter what. The SM that volunteered ...meaning they excepted all the nuances that go along with the vountiersiem. Or the unit that is missing a SM, used a school, promotion slot for them and never benefits from that SM.
Personally id prefer to see the SM "PCS" not just in body but in assignment as well. not being on the inside at the CORP and higher levels of a reserve program I have no doubt there is a reason they do not do that. One likely thing is, the volunteering to go active in another unit is not supposed to be a permanent deal.. hence the temporary things done why the SM is gone..that are in effect "Unfair"
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SSG (Join to see)
The unit signed and agreed on all required paperwork PRIOR to th SM being allowed to take the tour.
My home unit is on the same base I'm serving ADOS on, I don't have any issues. They even offered this soldier a slot at our unit. After all the transfer paperwork was sent to them for processing, they decide to go ahead and give these jacked up promotion orders
My home unit is on the same base I'm serving ADOS on, I don't have any issues. They even offered this soldier a slot at our unit. After all the transfer paperwork was sent to them for processing, they decide to go ahead and give these jacked up promotion orders
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CSM David Heidke
I've seen it a number of times where a Battalion Commander hasn't assumed command of a unit because he/she was on orders. But they did get promoted. Double standard much?
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Technically, while on ADOS, you still belong to your home station Reserve unit. They can put any condition they want on your ADOS tour. The deal I had to make with my Commander for him to sign the paperwork and get the State to sign as well, was (a) I still had to drill with my home unit (unless I was overseas) (b) I still had to attend AT, & (c) If a deployment came up, I had to report back to home unit to mobilize with them. As for promotions, it falls back on your home unit. They may have an internal policy that leadership can't be away from the unit. You could potentially work with them, but they need options to get to "yes".
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SSG (Join to see) Sounds like a real catch-22 for everyone the services have been dealing with for a number of years. Hate to be stuck in that position as a individual or unit.
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