Are our Officers and NCOs still using 4856 as a tool to better our Soldiers and to hold them accountable on their actions and why?

MAJ - Your wording alludes to one of the biggest issues I've experienced with leaders and the 4856.

I once called in SPC High Speed and her supervisor SGT Squared Away, into my office. When I pulled out a 4856, SPC High Speed about broke out in tears. SGT Squared Away immediately jumped to her defense and swore he would take this counseling to the old man!

That's fine I said. The purpose of the counseling was because SPC High Speed was observed taking the initiative to PMCS another team's vehicle because that team's driver was taken to the hospital by his TM LDR. SPC High Speed then notified SFC Full of Bluster of a safety concern in his Motor Pool. The 4856 closed with "SPC High Speed actions reflected well upon her, her supervisor and the unit." I then informed SGT Squared Away that he was more than welcome to take the 4856 to the old man.

True, the 4856 is a tool to hold Soldiers accountable but, it also let's them know they're on the right track. SPC High Speed's actions though not worthy of an award sure as hell warranted recognition as was SGT Squared Away who always emphasized team work and initiative.

Yes. I believe it is a valuable tool. It defines your expectations and your performance if it is done right. I am about to move from being a Infantry PL to a Mortar Platoon PL. Word has it that they found out that I am by the book. A friend of mine was telling me that they were borderline dreading my arrival due to this. But it has to be done. Soldiers are expected to perform to a standard. They have to be given a measure and know how they meet these expectations. I have seen units where they don't have any clear defined standards. I am sure some of them operate fine but then some are not. It is were to find a bad unit doing the right thing. Now holding yourself and those accountable is something that can be difficult. You never want to tell your boss you want to counseled. If they are not doing it already they might not even know how to do it properly. I know that is not an excuse but that is a difficult situation. I recall when I going to my SGT board I was supposed to have my counseling packet with me containing my previous year of counselings. So I ended up signing a years worth of counselings in one day. We were deployed for a good portion of it and were not really able to do counseling but there was time catch up that wasn't utilized. After experiencing this I train my best to set the standard. I want to show them what I expect of my soldiers for when they counsel their subordinates.

LTC (Join to see), great question and in my opinion the 4856 is being used but primarily only by NCO's and not as often as it should be. Soldiers receive their fair share of verbal counselings and on the spot corrections and although this isn't a negative process, but these methods should be used on a case by case basis and not be the norm. Officers on the other hand, receive verbal counselings more than any other form of mentorship or corrective action. In my opinion, I'd say that 3 out of every 10 Officers actually receive their quarterly counseling and support form review. This is a problem.

In my opinion (sorry) the DA4856 is being used as a "rear end protector" only. Professional growth/performance type of counseling (when received) have become a "check the box'" type of session. Leaders are taking more time to document a soldiers deficiency instead of recognizing performance/potential and developing the generation of the Army.

When I was in i used a 4856 for a job well done as well. This helpd me to write a pcs or ets award.

They are surely still being used. If used timely they can serve as a more stern warning than just a verbal. Also provides a black and white plan of improvement to those needing it. One thing I like about the new 4856 is that it has a block for what the leader actions will be. I lost all respect for any supervisor stating the Soldier's deficiencies without providing the Soldier a plan of action or leader actions for guiding the Soldier to the desired goal!

I'm a big fan of positive 4856s. My NCO's don't have any issues doing the quarterly or disciplinary counseling but they always forget that a Soldier can be counseled for positive things too. We use the positive counseling's as more ammunition when we submit awards or even as grounds to release a Soldier early for the day for all their hard work.. Plus the Soldiers get a sense of pride when they get the pat on the back and it helps to give a full perspective in a counseling packet.

Yes because it is a document of record in regards to tracking patterns of misconduct for UCMJ action and as a tool to inform Soldiers of what they need to correct or improve on.

Heres the truth, some do the right thing, some don't. My expereience is everyone runs around and scrambles when IG does an inspection, or the chain wants to punish someone, but still have yet to see a positive counceling

Using them? Yes.
Effectively? No.

To keep it short - Emphasis has been take from the "accurate reporting" section, more often than not. Leaders think that conversations between involved parties are the inevitable solution, so they find the documentation unnecessary or bothersome... sooooo they plug in a template.

Sans lacking any real or accurate information regarding the Soldier (clerical issues WILL screw you if the issue becomes larger), this lack of action has eliminated any ability we might have had to track the disciplinary issues of the Soldier. I can pull a packet, but if it hasn't already garnered the attention of JAG, it's likely going to be filled with 4856s that look exactly the same, but with different dates. I can't gauge progress, I can't recommend the next step and I can't accurately educate myself on the specifics of the situation.

This problem isn't limited to the 4856. I've watched Awards go out in ceremony with blatant grammar issues that one glance would have resolved.