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A common complaint that comes up during discussions among NCOs is that the Army is doing itself a disservice by essentially outlawing the good, oldfashioned "smoke session". Obviously the situation varies by unit, but by and large this seems to be a common topic across duty stations. What once would have been seen as an NCO keeping good order and discipline could now land you in a heap of trouble.
Army
NCOs
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 26
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SSG Brown,
In my mind, the "smoke session" has never really gotten the job done. A good leader doesn't need the power to cause their subordinates physical pain to get their point across. MG Schofield said it better than I can.
“The discipline which makes the soldiers of a free country reliable in battle is not to be gained by harsh or tyrannical treatment. On the contrary, such treatment is far more likely to destroy than to make an army. It is possible to impart instruction and to give commands in such a manner and such a tone of voice to inspire in the soldier no feeling but an intense desire to obey, while the opposite manner and tone of voice cannot fail to excite strong resentment and a desire to disobey. The one mode or the other of dealing with subordinates springs from a corresponding spirit in the breast of the commander. He who feels the respect which is due to others cannot fail to inspire in them regard for himself, while he who feels, and hence manifests, disrespect toward others, especially his inferiors, cannot fail to inspire hatred against himself.”
Major General John M. Schofield
Address to the Corps of Cadets
August 11, 1879
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SFC (Join to see)
1SG, I don't attempt to punish Soldiers. I think it's ineffective and that it's the commander's job. I focus on correcting situations detrimental to good order and discipline. If that means a Soldier's pay or time is taken away or the Soldier has to do pushups to be reminded about the standard, so be it. Ultimately, the Soldier is the only one who can decide to do the right thing or the wrong thing. I agree that there are different things that will motivate some that won't motivate others. Frankly, though, I (we) want the ones that don't need external motivation. Besides that, if I make him do pushups and he continues to mess up, I have to start the paper trail later in the game than I like. If I start from the beginning and document progress from the start, it's a much more streamlined process. I want Soldiers that can cut it. If the Soldier in question can cut it, then the counseling will simply be a written account of me helping him get better. If, on the other hand, the Soldier would fit better in a different profession, I will be able to affect that change sooner than later.
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1SG (Join to see)
I see you logic in this and don't disagree with you. What I have learned though, is that sometimes there are different ways of handling a situation. Many Soldiers could care less about a counseling statement and continue to go down a bad path. The question remains though, could you have done something different to get through to that Soldier to change them? Could a "father" like talk gotten through to them? Or maybe some corrective PT? What if those worked and you got through to them rather than give them the standard counseling? I go with what I know has worked for me in the past. In 15 years I have recommened two Art-15's, and never had to discharge anyone. Not saying I'm some awesome NCO, but I think sometimes an 19 or 19 year old kid needs a little reality check and a PT session does that, in my opinion. I love the dialoge by the way!
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SFC (Join to see)
SFC Marcus Tyler you seem to be one of the people that is the problem with soldiers now a days. You go and give them a time-out instead of whipping their butts.
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SFC (Join to see)
So I'm not sure how anything I've said would lead you to believe I don't hold Soldiers accountable as your post suggests but I rather resent the accusation.
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I am sure if you asked my 1SG 18 years ago if my generation was too soft they would say yes.
The smoke session is still an available tool in the NCOs kitbag. We must watch how we use it. Like many other things that tool will only work sometimes on some Soldiers. It is not a one tool fix all.
20 years ago the majority of my NCOs didn't care if I had a financial issue or family's problem. They focused on my fault and either smoked me or encouraged me by yelling at me. Today we are taught to identify the underlying problem and fix that.
I honestly believe you are a better leader if you talk to your Soldiers instead of smoking them, but understand that a smoke session can have a great impact if used properly and at the right moment.
I also think a lot of this has come around because of society. I got smacked as a kid and my butt would be black and blue for any mistakes I made. I can honestly say that does not work on my kids. I can get through to my kids more effectively by talking and giving them a verbal dress down. Times change and we must change with them.
Find out how to get through to your Soldiers and then use the right tool for the job. If a good ole fashioned smoke session is in order do it correctly and don't abuse it. I think you will find that just talking to the Soldier will yield better results. Like I always tell my NCOs - you have to be approachable to be an effective leader.
The smoke session is still an available tool in the NCOs kitbag. We must watch how we use it. Like many other things that tool will only work sometimes on some Soldiers. It is not a one tool fix all.
20 years ago the majority of my NCOs didn't care if I had a financial issue or family's problem. They focused on my fault and either smoked me or encouraged me by yelling at me. Today we are taught to identify the underlying problem and fix that.
I honestly believe you are a better leader if you talk to your Soldiers instead of smoking them, but understand that a smoke session can have a great impact if used properly and at the right moment.
I also think a lot of this has come around because of society. I got smacked as a kid and my butt would be black and blue for any mistakes I made. I can honestly say that does not work on my kids. I can get through to my kids more effectively by talking and giving them a verbal dress down. Times change and we must change with them.
Find out how to get through to your Soldiers and then use the right tool for the job. If a good ole fashioned smoke session is in order do it correctly and don't abuse it. I think you will find that just talking to the Soldier will yield better results. Like I always tell my NCOs - you have to be approachable to be an effective leader.
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SFC (Join to see)
1SG, nicely put. I think the smoke session has it's place but it is only one tool in the kit bag. If you try to build a house only using a hammer it will probably never work out for you. I think a lot of the younger leaders need to better learn about all the other tools in the kit bag to correct and educate Soldiers more effectively.
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SGM (Join to see)
SFC Cooley,
Absolutely correct. I wish more Leaders could understand that statement.
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Just like anything, i believe that the Army and just society in general are taking things too far. I personally am not going to change the way I am. But I approach people differently depending on the situation. I am a firm believer that if you have a mutual unspoken agreement with the Soldier in which he/she understands the severity of the mess up, then it's all good, as long as you dont kill the individual. Now, if you are trying to 'smoke' everyone for every little thing and not wanna hear what they have to say, you just lost that tool, because Soldiers will know that they're just gonna get smoked, and will just use it to get stronger, in a sense. <div>Always build that bond with your Soldiers. When they see your serious face and automatically know that they messed up, you won't even need anything else. On top of that, when you're able to congratulate them for good things they did, you have become a fair and impartial leader, which we need nowadays.</div>
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