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Throughout the services we do our best to promote a culture of physical fitness & peak performance; now, we just need to ask how we can get even better; so, what could we--or should we--do differently? How could we implement specific changes for a positive & wide-reaching impact in the DoD? One example may be food contracts/vending machine choices on military installations... do these align w/ the goal of a physically fit force? Another might be that Air Force officers don't mess at the dining facility by order--so, their only reasonable option is very often fast food--meanwhile, USMC officers are allowed to eat at their dining facilities; these are just a few cultural inconsistencies, there are likely many others across the joint spectrum... so, the object here is to start a thoughtful discussion of what we're doing right--what we're doing wrong--and brainstorm how we might get even better. I look forward to hearing your awesome ideas, thanks for all that you do, and... see you all in the discussion threads!
Joint Service
Fitness
Culture
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 21
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Sir, I've said this once before and ill say it again. It starts with education. Not just a quick hour course either. A true understanding of the body, metabolism and nutrition. I say nutrition because, I don't believe in 'diets'. We live in a instant gratification society. "What's the quickest way I can lose weight?" or "I have height/weight in a week, I just won't eat." I hear this too often. Sadly, I've heard this from NCO's as well. I've spent countless hours at my unit with fellow soldiers educating them on the importance of fitness and a healthy lifestyle. Why? If I don't share what I know, these soldiers will not be in the military for long. The Army Reserves is drastically cutting down its force for those who are not meeting soldier readiness requirements. <div><br></div><div>It may be as simple as education and a change in ones cognitive thinking on the matter. Let's take the word 'diet' for example. Now replace it with 'nutrition'. Ok, we've take some of that negativity out . Instead of not eating at all, what if you could eat more and still lose weight? Ok, now I have your attention. When you don't eat for an extended period of time, your body stores fat in preparation for starvation. That stored fat isn't easy to burn off. Eating small healthy snacks throughout the day, can help increase metabolism. </div><div><br></div><div>My point is this... Sometimes it takes a little extra knowledge. We need to incorporate ARMY MOVE for ALL soldiers. Not just overweight soldiers. I know a couple soldiers who had to register with Army Move. These soldiers were already struggling with weight BEFORE registering. Preventative maintenance and preparing for a soldiers future ,should be a requirement. </div><div><br></div><div>I directed a personal training department, where I've worked with every body type and age. Having a little education goes a long way. Aside from saving your military career, it can also save your life. </div>
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SPC David Hannaman
Well said. The only thing I would add is that in the case of married soldiers the spouse also needs to be included.
We've all seen the soldier that is fit but has a spouse who is morbidly obese. That soldier fights an uphill battle, coming home to cheap but poor nutrition meals.
Keeping in mind that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink, nutrition and exercise education and equipment needs to be made available to everyone in the service member's chain of support.
I feel strongly that this investment would pay dividends not only for the military, but for society in general.
We've all seen the soldier that is fit but has a spouse who is morbidly obese. That soldier fights an uphill battle, coming home to cheap but poor nutrition meals.
Keeping in mind that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink, nutrition and exercise education and equipment needs to be made available to everyone in the service member's chain of support.
I feel strongly that this investment would pay dividends not only for the military, but for society in general.
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No, we do not cultivate a fitness culture. We cultivate a culture of passing a PT test and losing a couple pounds to "pass tape". My personal belief is that once a person meets the standard on the PT test (there should be another discussion on exactly what that means; pass vs 270 vs 300), they should be able to do whatever program they want, as long as they consistently meet the standard.
I have never liked being told what to do when it comes to working out. PT does not get me in better shape. Sure, running is running, but the new system is not what works for me, and it doesn't work for most people who are actually in shape. We need to start breaking away from "1 .. 2 .. 3" mindset and realize that the fitness levels within our ranks cannot be supported in that manner. I know I'm not the only one who has to work out twice a day when I'm stuck in PT. Once in the morning for my unit, and once in the evening for myself.
We have a standard (however good or bad it is), let people meet it, and then let those competent Soldiers (yes, I'm willing to give leaders the responsibility of deciding who is competent) work on their own plan. Each person is not built the same and we can't make Soldiers all workout the same.
While I'm not hitting on the healthy eating portion of this discussion (I'm lucky and don't have to worry too much about it) I still believe that PT needs to be re-looked ... again! PRT is not the answer either.
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SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA
Excellent points, MAJ (Join to see). I agree that those who are getting a 300 (or perhaps a 270) on the APFT should be allowed to conduct their own PT program, as they evidently have found a system that works for them.
I do believe that Army PRT, properly executed, works well. I personally went from a 317 to a 340 (while gaining 15 lbs.) during 14 weeks of Infantry OSUT, on a steady regimen of correct PRT (and group smoke sessions, of course...).
I do believe that Army PRT, properly executed, works well. I personally went from a 317 to a 340 (while gaining 15 lbs.) during 14 weeks of Infantry OSUT, on a steady regimen of correct PRT (and group smoke sessions, of course...).
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Definitely ditch the vending machines, or, at least get rid of the unhealthy options within them.
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SGT (Join to see)
Enter the "Hey, its lunch time buuuuut we need to lay out all of our equipment and inventory before COB so you get 10 minutes to rotate through chow."
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SGT (Join to see)
I disagree with this. Just because there are overweight SM's your going to take away the easy access to snacks for the rest of us? If I want to get a snickers, I shouldn't have to sneak off to the shoppet to get one.
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There are certain guidelines that one must follow in order to be fit. Once you understand them eating junk food now and then isn't going to hurt you. With all things if we are able to teach military personnel the "secret" to success, which is creating habits and routines that are done on a daily basis, they can learn to succeed in any endeavor.
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There are so many reasons we are becoming a less fit culture. A lot of it has to do with American culture to begin with, and a lot with choices the military has made over the years. When I first came in fast food was something you had to drive to, now McDonalds, Taco Bell, Starbucks and such can be found on many bases. I am all for creating jobs and supporting the economy, as well as giving more choices for soldiers to eat, but if we foster that kind of living what can we expect.
Also with technology comes laziness. Advancement is good for weapons, but computer training is not going to get soldiers ready for real war or conflict. While not all places have them, while training soldiers to go to deployment some units are using the new computer training ranges. Instead of soldiers driving out in the mud, carrying 50 LBS, jumping in and out of foxholes and loading their weapons; they drive up to buildings walk inside sit down and wait for instructions.
It has gotten so bad that the military is talking of lowering the standards for weight by a lot. I always thought it was a little tough, but their recommendations are crazy. They military should be a driving force for the rest of the country, something to look at and say I want to be that, not the other way around.
As for your comment on officers eating in the Mess Hall, I think that they should. I understand the need to have a separation in ranks to a point. But I also feel that it helps the enlisted to know their officers better, and the other way around. It also gives them a chance to lead by example. If they are in the field they would have to eat together. When stationed in Korea one of my favorite moments was sitting in the NCO Club, and the Base Commander was in their buying drinks for some of the enlisted in his office. A Major walked in and asked if he would like to join them in the O Club, the General looked at him and said "I am getting to know these soldiers that work so hard for me." The Major looked shocked and walked out of the club.
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I don’t think that this is a simple answer. There are so many things that come into play. I see a lot of Reponses on here are about PT not being "good enough" for individual SM. I do agree to a certain extent. But what is the solution? Some people have said that if you score a certain score on the PT test you should get to work out on your own. What do we do with the Soldier that can’t score that well? Do we leave NCOs in charge that also can’t score that well? Will they get better or worse that way? Or do we leave a high-speed fit NCO in charge of the ones that can't score that high? If so how do we choose which NCO doesn't get to benefit from the gym like the others.
Others talk about having more training on fitness, nutrition, body mechanics and such. I completely agree. But as others have said many SM will not pay attention because it is just another class to add to the already overwhelming amount of classes we have. The leaders will only half way do the classes because they have work to do as well as this extra mandatory requirement. What do we do?
Then we talk about changing, removing or banning food served on or around post. Sounds great but is so hard to actually implement. DFACs have begun serving a little bit better of food; as well as putting up the green, yellow and red nutrition signs. But they still supply the fatty deep fried foods. As they should because if I hit the gym twice a day, get a 300 on my PT test and have a six pack abs who are you to say I can't enjoy a burger. Same goes for the "bad" food on post. We will never ban burger king or taco bell because of 2 reasons. Number one money, money, money. The Army its self doesn’t control AAFES. AAFES is here to make money and that is how they will do it. Number 2 just because we have overweight Soldiers doesn't mean that dependents, retirees, civilians and contractors that also use our facilities should be told they can't have the fatty burger they want.
Still others talk about it here and it is really a big variable in our forces Fitness is profiles. The stigma that they are bad is one thing, doctors not writing the right kind of profiles, leaders not knowing how to handle Soldiers that have them, Soldiers getting them and not trying to get better to get off them. This will always be something that affects the decisions we as a force make pertaining to health and fitness.
Now to my solution. Keep in mind that I understand the cost involved would be high and the time involved higher. But I don’t think it would cost all that much if implemented correctly.
I think that the army needs to maintain an MOS of personnel trainers, dieticians, and people trained in sports medicine. They should be sent down to the company level. We would put at least one personal trainer at the company level. Right now we are calling them master fitness trainers. Their entire job would be to evaluate the Soldiers in the unit. Establish fitness goals and help come up with an appropriate workout routine. I say this because for the handful of Soldiers in a formation that do 2 a days at the gym and know what they are doing; there are ten times that who have no clue what to do. Once a routine is established for each individual Soldier they are given bench marks to meet. HT/WT, body fat and a fitness test. “Not the current fitness test but something better oriented at the entire force.” That company level personal trainer reports to the BN and BDE. At the BN and BDE level you have your dietician, sports medicine expert, and maybe some RNs. All of these people work closely with the post medical staff to ensure that profiles are reflecting the real issues; not a blanket don’t do anything profile. This is then referred down to a group at the BN level whose job is to ensure injuries are tracked, and properly worked on.
The second suggestion that I would make is part of the reason morning PT is so important is because it is a chance for the commander to get all his troops in one place and se them. May be the only time all day. Work on some D and C while doing PRT. So a better suggestion would be get rid of the organized PT and get it to an individual program with the personal trainer. Move the work day up an hour so the commander has a chance to get all his troops in one place. Work on some D and C, maybe knock out some mandatory training and just generally have some time with troops before “work” starts for the day.
I consider the Armed Forces to be athletes. So we should be treated like athletes. I will use football as an example. If I am a QB; my QB coach will help me work on my throw. If I injure my leg I will go see the sports medicine staff, go to the Doc, and get put on a routine to help fix my leg. The QB coach will have nothing to do with the rehab of my leg. Why? Because it is not his job. We need to start realizing in the Army that the 20 year old brand new E5 with only a GED may not be the best person to decide what 100 people are going to do for PT this morning.
I do believe that at this point in our current military culture PRT in the morning is the best we have. We cant just send Soldiers to the gym. Most wouldn’t know what to do and would result in a weaker force. But given the right circumstances it could be done.
Others talk about having more training on fitness, nutrition, body mechanics and such. I completely agree. But as others have said many SM will not pay attention because it is just another class to add to the already overwhelming amount of classes we have. The leaders will only half way do the classes because they have work to do as well as this extra mandatory requirement. What do we do?
Then we talk about changing, removing or banning food served on or around post. Sounds great but is so hard to actually implement. DFACs have begun serving a little bit better of food; as well as putting up the green, yellow and red nutrition signs. But they still supply the fatty deep fried foods. As they should because if I hit the gym twice a day, get a 300 on my PT test and have a six pack abs who are you to say I can't enjoy a burger. Same goes for the "bad" food on post. We will never ban burger king or taco bell because of 2 reasons. Number one money, money, money. The Army its self doesn’t control AAFES. AAFES is here to make money and that is how they will do it. Number 2 just because we have overweight Soldiers doesn't mean that dependents, retirees, civilians and contractors that also use our facilities should be told they can't have the fatty burger they want.
Still others talk about it here and it is really a big variable in our forces Fitness is profiles. The stigma that they are bad is one thing, doctors not writing the right kind of profiles, leaders not knowing how to handle Soldiers that have them, Soldiers getting them and not trying to get better to get off them. This will always be something that affects the decisions we as a force make pertaining to health and fitness.
Now to my solution. Keep in mind that I understand the cost involved would be high and the time involved higher. But I don’t think it would cost all that much if implemented correctly.
I think that the army needs to maintain an MOS of personnel trainers, dieticians, and people trained in sports medicine. They should be sent down to the company level. We would put at least one personal trainer at the company level. Right now we are calling them master fitness trainers. Their entire job would be to evaluate the Soldiers in the unit. Establish fitness goals and help come up with an appropriate workout routine. I say this because for the handful of Soldiers in a formation that do 2 a days at the gym and know what they are doing; there are ten times that who have no clue what to do. Once a routine is established for each individual Soldier they are given bench marks to meet. HT/WT, body fat and a fitness test. “Not the current fitness test but something better oriented at the entire force.” That company level personal trainer reports to the BN and BDE. At the BN and BDE level you have your dietician, sports medicine expert, and maybe some RNs. All of these people work closely with the post medical staff to ensure that profiles are reflecting the real issues; not a blanket don’t do anything profile. This is then referred down to a group at the BN level whose job is to ensure injuries are tracked, and properly worked on.
The second suggestion that I would make is part of the reason morning PT is so important is because it is a chance for the commander to get all his troops in one place and se them. May be the only time all day. Work on some D and C while doing PRT. So a better suggestion would be get rid of the organized PT and get it to an individual program with the personal trainer. Move the work day up an hour so the commander has a chance to get all his troops in one place. Work on some D and C, maybe knock out some mandatory training and just generally have some time with troops before “work” starts for the day.
I consider the Armed Forces to be athletes. So we should be treated like athletes. I will use football as an example. If I am a QB; my QB coach will help me work on my throw. If I injure my leg I will go see the sports medicine staff, go to the Doc, and get put on a routine to help fix my leg. The QB coach will have nothing to do with the rehab of my leg. Why? Because it is not his job. We need to start realizing in the Army that the 20 year old brand new E5 with only a GED may not be the best person to decide what 100 people are going to do for PT this morning.
I do believe that at this point in our current military culture PRT in the morning is the best we have. We cant just send Soldiers to the gym. Most wouldn’t know what to do and would result in a weaker force. But given the right circumstances it could be done.
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MSgt Keith Hebert
Very good solution
I would have the personal trainers be military for the simple reason I believe sm would react better to military personnel( they have gone through the same things as the SM have gone through, thus would have a inherent respect)
And I am a firm believer in everything in moderation, when you go to excess in anything it can can be bad
I would have the personal trainers be military for the simple reason I believe sm would react better to military personnel( they have gone through the same things as the SM have gone through, thus would have a inherent respect)
And I am a firm believer in everything in moderation, when you go to excess in anything it can can be bad
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1SG (Join to see)
I completly agree it should be military. Make it an actual job for a service member. Like today you have an appointment at 1300 with the company personal trainer. You show up in PTs he evalutes how your program has been going. Tweeks some things puts your info in the system. Then generates reports for the commaders.
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interesting question. I think that reading posts here and elsewhere on this topic, that we are not cultivating a "fitness culture". We are cultivating a how to pass the PT test culture. Fitness and nutrition are not emphasized in our daily lives. It's no longer seriously taught in schools. They only require a small block of study (6 hours) on nutrition and health now. Students only require 1 Physical Education credit to graduate and things like marching band, cheer, flag team etc. count for the PE credit. Until fitness and nutrition become emphasized in society, especially in elementary and secondary curriculums - where it has the most impact reaching young moldable minds, then the military will continue to play 'catch up' with it's members. Once they reach 18 they have formed most of their eating and exercising habits. Most of them are taught through the education system, by them not having to emphasize fitness and nutrition, that it isn't that important. They become lazy when it comes to fitness, and will do the minimum amount possible to pass the test and nothing more.
I do feel that the Air Force should adopt more of the other services mentality when it comes to the Fitness assessment. Right now they only mark your EPR/OPR with pass or fail. They should include the fitness score into the Weighted Airman Promotion System and into the Officer Promotion system board scores. This I believe would help motivate Airman and move the service more towards 'cultivating a fitness culture'. When their fitness score directly impacts the career I think there would be some increased motivation to be fit and healthy.
I would like to hear from the other services on whether or not you feel that including the fitness score into promotion board scores increases members motivation to be fit and healthy or not?
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MSgt (Join to see)
SPC K; yes, this is still the case. As our evals go, the PT test is simply Meets/Does Not Meet. The score simply goes towards incentives at the unit; the only AF incentive for a 90 is having to test once a year instead of twice. Units usually offer a day off for a 90 or above and require those folks to attend less mandatory sessions.
The question of putting the score on our evals used to come up pretty often in SEL calls; I see it less often now, mostly on Facebook or in article comments calling for it and for scores to be brought into promotion.
The then-CMSAF answered the question pretty well during an enlisted about 6 years ago. When asked why the score isn't on the EPR, he said "Because I don't want it to be there. If you put that number there, everything will become about that number, and people will do crazy and unsafe things to affect that number." I think he predicted leadership at various levels would use the PT score as a sort of one-size-fits-all stratification element to consider various things that the PT standard wasn't designed to be brought in to.
The question of putting the score on our evals used to come up pretty often in SEL calls; I see it less often now, mostly on Facebook or in article comments calling for it and for scores to be brought into promotion.
The then-CMSAF answered the question pretty well during an enlisted about 6 years ago. When asked why the score isn't on the EPR, he said "Because I don't want it to be there. If you put that number there, everything will become about that number, and people will do crazy and unsafe things to affect that number." I think he predicted leadership at various levels would use the PT score as a sort of one-size-fits-all stratification element to consider various things that the PT standard wasn't designed to be brought in to.
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At least for the Army, we are not necessarily cultivating that culture. Sure, we have a good PT program, but that is only part of being fit. Your diet and other lifestyle choices have a direct effect on your fitness. Take the DFAC for example. Yeah it has healthy options. However, why do they even serve things such as burgers? There are healthier options that can be produced just as fast.
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SSG Christopher Freeman
Being active. When I was a single Soldier, I was a barracks rat. All around me were opportunities to better myself. Now I try to maintain an active lifestyle. I also try to make healthier eating choices. I still enjoy fast food, but within reason. The other thing I do is try to keep my stress low (when possible).
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CWO2 Shelby DuBois
We've come a long way from when I joined and you got 4 cigarettes in your C-Rats... I've never smoked, so I'd trade the cigs for the other guys candy bars or gum or TP...
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Well, the recent change to the regulations making 90 minutes a week of workout time an optional "should" instead of a mandatory "shall" didn't help.
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Sir,
Yes we are pushing a "culture of physical fitness & peak performance" but if not done correctly and we look at PT test scores as an indicator of how fit we are then there are going to be issues.
I'm going to share more than I would like in this post but I hope it helps answer the question.
Because some leaders demand and expect our troops to be in top shape but also frown on a medical profile when that soldier is injured we may be doing damage to the force with the "peak performance without excuses" mentality.
For me it started with supplements to ease the pain and build muscle around the injured knee or shoulder, just a little extra help for those last few reps on the PT test.
But that caused tendon and ligament damage so it was on to the red pills. Six three times a day. Legal anabolic miracles that speeded healing, cut fat and added muscle.
But now I needed to fight the fatigue I had when the pills stopped working, no problem, three green pills twice a day and I had energy all day.
I added 30 pounds of muscle and my strength was at its peak but I couldn't bend over and my joints were all stiff. Again, too easy, Two blue pills twice a day, two oxygen tablets and topical treatments at the joints. Don't forget the cortisone shots and electronic muscle stimulator treatments at home.
I went from 180lbs to 220lbs in less than a few months and up a uniform size. I had muscle on top of muscle and the pain was hidden by testosterone, anabolics, and braces. But I maxed the PT test and could road march 30 miles with a 90lbs pack with a smile.
Of course the nerve damage helped with stopping the pain and the HGH treatments helped with recovery. Boot size went from a 10 1-2 to an 11 1/2 and my neck hit 18 1/2 inches round.
Yes I was in the best shape of my life and a partial tear of the triceps tendon off the bone went unnoticed thanks to the miracles on the shelves of the modern pharmacy. I deployed three times and my injuries from IEDs went untreated, just masked. "I can't leave my soldiers", so to avoid going to Germany for medical treatment I added industrial strength pain killers, but I passed the PT test so I was in shape.
I went to the Army Master Fitness School, I know about diet, and exercise. I know steroids are bad and I avoided them. But the legal version of steroids must be ok because we sell them in the PX, and if I am going to be fit and work through these injuries I just need a little help.
Mood swings, anger management issues, poor social graces, aggressive in voice and body language, but I was fit, just look at those PT test scores.
Now I have liver and kidney issues, toxic contamination of my internals, and after 17 surgeries to place muscle and tendons back on to bones I think I can say the "culture of physical fitness & peak performance" needs to be looked at.
NCO's watch your people, look for the signs of injuries and unexplained improvement. Weight gain, aggressive behaviors by your gym rats and sudden strength gains. And above all, get involved with your people, know them as a person as well as a soldier, airmen or Marine.
Peak performance is a goal, but lets make sure were pushing towards meeting that goal the right way.
Yes we are pushing a "culture of physical fitness & peak performance" but if not done correctly and we look at PT test scores as an indicator of how fit we are then there are going to be issues.
I'm going to share more than I would like in this post but I hope it helps answer the question.
Because some leaders demand and expect our troops to be in top shape but also frown on a medical profile when that soldier is injured we may be doing damage to the force with the "peak performance without excuses" mentality.
For me it started with supplements to ease the pain and build muscle around the injured knee or shoulder, just a little extra help for those last few reps on the PT test.
But that caused tendon and ligament damage so it was on to the red pills. Six three times a day. Legal anabolic miracles that speeded healing, cut fat and added muscle.
But now I needed to fight the fatigue I had when the pills stopped working, no problem, three green pills twice a day and I had energy all day.
I added 30 pounds of muscle and my strength was at its peak but I couldn't bend over and my joints were all stiff. Again, too easy, Two blue pills twice a day, two oxygen tablets and topical treatments at the joints. Don't forget the cortisone shots and electronic muscle stimulator treatments at home.
I went from 180lbs to 220lbs in less than a few months and up a uniform size. I had muscle on top of muscle and the pain was hidden by testosterone, anabolics, and braces. But I maxed the PT test and could road march 30 miles with a 90lbs pack with a smile.
Of course the nerve damage helped with stopping the pain and the HGH treatments helped with recovery. Boot size went from a 10 1-2 to an 11 1/2 and my neck hit 18 1/2 inches round.
Yes I was in the best shape of my life and a partial tear of the triceps tendon off the bone went unnoticed thanks to the miracles on the shelves of the modern pharmacy. I deployed three times and my injuries from IEDs went untreated, just masked. "I can't leave my soldiers", so to avoid going to Germany for medical treatment I added industrial strength pain killers, but I passed the PT test so I was in shape.
I went to the Army Master Fitness School, I know about diet, and exercise. I know steroids are bad and I avoided them. But the legal version of steroids must be ok because we sell them in the PX, and if I am going to be fit and work through these injuries I just need a little help.
Mood swings, anger management issues, poor social graces, aggressive in voice and body language, but I was fit, just look at those PT test scores.
Now I have liver and kidney issues, toxic contamination of my internals, and after 17 surgeries to place muscle and tendons back on to bones I think I can say the "culture of physical fitness & peak performance" needs to be looked at.
NCO's watch your people, look for the signs of injuries and unexplained improvement. Weight gain, aggressive behaviors by your gym rats and sudden strength gains. And above all, get involved with your people, know them as a person as well as a soldier, airmen or Marine.
Peak performance is a goal, but lets make sure were pushing towards meeting that goal the right way.
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