Posted on Mar 18, 2014

Are we losing the best young officers after 13 years of war?

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I have seen a recent trend in some units. The best of the junior lieutenants are choosing to leave the service. In my Squadron alone, the top 3 lieutenants have all dropped a UQR. I of course begin to question if it is some lack in my leadership that is causing this, so I ask the forum...is there a trend? Some of the officers have cited that they joined to go to war and that now that there is no longer a mission, no longer a war to fight, that garrison isn't what they wanted. How do we as an institution pass on the knowledge that a military isn't just for war, and mostly it's for the prevention of war? Or...is this just the natural order of things? Of the LT's in my first Battalion, there are only 3 of us left.

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Posted 12 y ago

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Responses: 12

CW2 (Join to see)

Posted 12 y ago

Sir,

I will tell you that officers do not develop officers well enough, and I don't know why that is.

It is the job of the PSG to mentor a young lieutenant, and I think many captains take that as "well then I don't have to do anything".

Well there are plenty of things that officers do that a senior NCO doesn't do and can't really train on.

So what I've seen is a ton of junior officers that become disillusioned with the Army because of it over the years, to include my time as a 1SG in a RSTA SQDN.

I see a lot of task task task with very poor guidance. And also a serious lack of real counseling. So what that leads to is a ton of LTs that do things like, say, run a range well (maybe because they are lucky, good at it, or have a good NCOIC) and nothing is said. No guidance, no feedback. But something goes wrong like the BN CDR shows up to the range and thinks it's run poorly, and then the CPT destroys the LT (often in front of other people) even though they never gave guidance either.

This is because these same CPTs were in the same boat a few years ago...so they never got proper guidance either. Which leads to I think two trains of thought:

1) They know they "suck" at this particular task (because they didn't get guidance), so they have no guidance to give. (these are the bad officers)

2) The good officers figured it out on their own with initiative and often feel that if they could do it, this crappy new officer should do it as well.

There are few exceptions, like my former CO, that were a blend of both. They didn't get guidance, but they figured it out on their own, so they decided they wouldn't let that happen to their junior officers. Those are the best.

Lastly, and this is prevalent amongst all senior ranks - people are afraid to go against the grain. I'm not talking about constantly arguing with your superior, but being afraid to say "sir, this doesn't make sense". And the young officers and NCOs see that, and it irritates them and leads them to either 1) become determined to fix it or 2) just get out.

As an example. If your company commander tells you as their SQDN CDR that there are no issues and their company/troop needs no support, they are lying or delusional, or afraid to voice their concerns. I doubt it's the latter, because if it was the latter it would mean you don't care, and if you didn't care, you wouldn't be posting here asking. but either way, people see that. An XO or PL sees that they desperately need this SFC billet filled, or more weapons, or more attachments for their weapon, and then they see the CPT say "nothing new to report sir" or "we're good to go sir, ready to fight".

That's just my .02

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CW2 (Join to see)

12 y

Not sure why this computer is formatting my response with no paragraph breaks, I apologize if that makes it too difficult to read.

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COL (Join to see)

12 y

All good points, and I have seen that from time to time in my own unit. We have tried like hell to institute meaningful counseling, both on the spot and over time. I think you make some great point though that I will bring up with my troop commanders and my LPD group. Thanks.

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CW2 (Join to see)

12 y

I hope the comments are well received sir!

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SPC Angel Guma

>1 y

The Army does a pretty good job at war fighting. I don't think the issues are at all as 'bad' from a true holistic standpoint. But I declined a commission and got out for precisely everything listed here. I did not see the worth to put in more Army time just to meet the fate I saw others go through. At some point, it is what it is, if the organization wants change, it'll happen. Its bizarre how these things work. From my standpoint as junior enlisted- counselings tended to be ways to beat down people you didn't like, or, just sign the dotted line. Very little effort was made in the entire time I was in to mentor anyone. I absolutely saw the same things with young officers, but it was just the same way with all the enlisted folks too, if not worse. I think it behooves people with a desire to win to train people to fight to win, not to fight without knowing what to do just to get bloodied and made an example of (it's just the Army way, Old School). I've never seen this work to build anyone up to be effective leaders and the only thing that happens is that those that survive the process, and don't ETS or leave their commissions end up seeing how this process worked, and they copy it. So exactly how SFC Jones said, what ends up happening is laggards, people without a clue, non-performers, and worse of all toxic leaders see how great the system is to lie about progress or cover up shortcomings while nailing people below them. There are well-meaning people though that stay in, I just didn't see why I would commit my time and energy into a commission just to go through everything I did from E-1 to E-4. We perform well on the battlefield and the whole world sees it, but, sooner or later, we will come in contact with fighters of the mettle of the Russians or Chinese, we have years of experience fighting loosely banded guerrilla fighters, and Saddam's army was a joke both in 1991 and in 2003. With all that said, I still have faith things will get better.

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LTC Yinon Weiss

Edited 12 y ago

Posted 12 y ago

Sir, I work with a lot of officers applying to top business schools for their MBA. Since these are top schools, these tend to be top performing junior officers as well. With that said, I have seen a much larger number of folks in the last year or two getting out. When I ask about their peers, they usually say "most of the top Lieutenants at my unit are getting out." So take this not as a thorough survey, but as a data point that definitely spans many other units.<div><br></div><div>I think you intuition as to their motivation is precisely right, and also not likely a reflection of you or your unit. Top reasons I hear:</div><div><br></div><div>- Frustration with career progress opportunities (promotions taking longer, lack of meritocracy, extended staff time, etc.)</div><div>- Desire to deploy, and the lack of that opportunity to do so</div><div>- Concern about stifling bureaucracy in garrison</div><div><br></div><div>For people who are looking to be top achievers, the lack of opportunity to deploy, the lack of opportunity to progress (or at least the perception of it), and lack of opportunity to lead in combat, drives a lot of good people out... though of course a lot of good people decide to stay in as well.</div><div><br></div><div>I don't see it as a commitment problem. Any organization that wants to keep its best must sufficiently challenge its top performers and empower them to make a big enough of an impact. I would ask whether the Army is doing that, and how it can do it better.</div>

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CPT Brandon Christensen

>1 y

"For people who are looking to be top achievers, the lack of opportunity to deploy, the lack of opportunity to progress (or at least the perception of it), and lack of opportunity to lead in combat, drives a lot of good people out."

Totally agree!

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COL (Join to see)

>1 y

Agreed. Even with the empowerment and trust built around good units though, a lot of good officers are leaving simply because they joined to fight and not live in a garrison Army. I find it interesting that the tedium that they are supposedly running from is actually quite commonplace in civilian enterprise. While they have many more freedoms, the excitement they pursued in the military usually doesn't exist elsewhere.

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CW2 Joseph Evans

Posted 12 y ago

We were losing them after 5 because they didn't sign on to fight a corporate war of attrition. The ones we lost after 10 was because they were tired of being second guessed by people that had never seen the front line. The ones we are losing now are because they are being denied the glory of battle.

If they aren't predisposed to service for service sake alone, Family, Country, God, do you really want them managing the foxholes to your front and flank?

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COL (Join to see)

12 y

I see it as a decision on committment. If their heart isn't in it anymore, then absolutely...it's time to head on to greener pastures. It is tough to see Soldiers with so much potential get out though, but it's for the best in the end.

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BG (Join to see)

Posted >1 y ago

Good counsel to the young officers leaving is to stay in the Reserve Component. Most of the young officers with talent left after during the Gulf War drawdown. They knew they had skills to peddle on the outside where they can rise faster than the rigid Army system.

Go to advanced schooling, go to a great civilian career, but don't give up the Army. Stay involved, use your Army Reserve opportunities, such as Company and Battalion Command, to enforce your civilian skills as a leader and manager. Collect a pension someday, in a world where pensions are increasingly rare. Use Tricare Reserve which will likely be cheaper than your civilian healthcare options.

And if you joined because you wanted to go to war, guess what? They will likely oblige you sometime in the future.

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COL (Join to see)

>1 y

Sir; great counsel, indeed. Everyone who has left has transfered to the Reserve or National Guard, so there is that.

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MSG David Chappell

Posted >1 y ago

A number of MAJs were notified while deployed of seperation based on the ordered downsizing. This trend has the ranks at all levels looking for stability in the civilian sector.

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SSG (Join to see)

Posted >1 y ago

Sir,

It is not just on the officer side. Great enlisted soldiers are doing 4 and out. I personally believe it is the culture of the army at the present time.

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Mike H

Edited >1 y ago

Posted >1 y ago

Sir I do not have a military background but I run a successful company and know something about developing leaders. Also, my son is currently an army aviator and I ran across your original post while doing some research to try and provide him some guidance. I signed up on this board just to respond to you. All I know is his experience but in his time at his first posting thus far (4 years including a combat deployment) he has had some of the worst, most toxic leadership I have ever seen. The captains (4 in 4 years) in command of his unit are too busy fluffing up their OERs and trying to look good on paper to actually provide leadership, solve problems and more importantly oversee the professional development of those under them. Those in command over the company commanders appear to have the same issues. Part of the issue from my perspective as a civilian is this revolving door of leadership in units. New COs see the problems and have big plans to take some action but after a few months they are putting band aids on the problems like their predecessors and thinking about moving on to their next assignment. This pattern of leadership goes all the way to the Pentagon it seems so change isn't going to be an easy thing. I applaud you for being open and honest enough to ask the question and would suggest that you spend some time actually observing what your subordinates are doing rather than evaluating them based on what is written on a piece of paper. If a unit's operational readiness rating is high but it is achieved by it's commanders being tyrannical leaders, is the rating really as high as it would seem? Good people, military and civilian, thrive under good leadership. A very few exceptional people can still thrive under poor leadership but those people are rare. What is the point of this long post? Maybe the good LTs leaving don't see a future in an institution that doesn't properly develop its leaders. Maybe they don't want to become the captains who are more concerned with their next promotion than the quality of leadership they provide. This is not pointed at your leadership because you would seem to be concerned or you would not have asked the question. Your post was about five years ago so my guess is you have moved on from the assignment that generated your question but hopefully this response can be of some use to you in your current position. Thank you for your service to our country.

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CSM Charles Hayden Passed 7/29/2025

>1 y

With Congress “looking” at making service academy graduates serve a longer term after graduation, there must be an attrition problem. Too many graduates are taking the education and fleeing the military!

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MSG Frank Kapaun

Posted >1 y ago

A better question would be to ask why stay and make a career of it?

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CWO3 (Join to see)

Posted >1 y ago

Maybe the economy?

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CPT (Join to see)

Posted >1 y ago

Sir,

I'm a little late to the party on this one, but I thought this was an interesting article with interesting dialogue in the comments (although it is an older article):

http://m.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/01/why-our-best-officers-are-leaving/308346/

Why Our Best Officers Are Leaving

Why are so many of the most talented officers now abandoning military life for the private sector? An exclusive survey of West Point graduates shows that it’s not just money. Increasingly, the militar...

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CPT Dave Shephard

>1 y

Late to the party - story of your life, Abe. Great article!

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COL (Join to see)

>1 y

Abe, always good to see you on RP. Good article. Interesting statistics, but if you look at it...the numbers don't necessarily degrade the Army. If "they" say that half of the good officers get out...then they are right on the money. Attrition works for those who are not committed and we still end up with 50% success, which ends up being about right. Those people succeed in a longer career, because equitable personnel got out who they would have had to compete with, but we still end up with quality in the right places. The recommendations are simplistic, but the author recognizes that it would take a sea-change move to break that overarching red-tape of the personnel system. I still think it's about committment. The Army is not in love with any of us...and it never will be. It's a machine. It will always exist and doesn't care about it's parts. An officer has to see past those flaws and embrace an idea that goes beyond the Army iteself and the systems within it. You have to believe in the reason for the Army, the things that it protects, the "sunum bonum," to steal from Marcus Aurelius. Those that get out might not have that at the level they need to stay with it. The benefits of getting out outweight the benefits of staying in to them.

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