Posted on Nov 24, 2014
Are We Really Fighting the War on Terrorism?
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After getting in an intense conversation about some current events, it came across my mind that we have not kept our promise to the American people. "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic...", we have used billions of dollars to end teriorism on the other side of the planet, but we have not spent nearly as much time or resources fighting domestic terrorism.
The KKK and other groups have been identified as terrorist groups for many years, why is it that we allow them to exist on our soil, and continue to do damage? In recent events the KKK have threaten to use violent force against those they view as enemies, why have we not mobilized to destroy this enemy threat who openly threaten our civilians?
The KKK and other groups have been identified as terrorist groups for many years, why is it that we allow them to exist on our soil, and continue to do damage? In recent events the KKK have threaten to use violent force against those they view as enemies, why have we not mobilized to destroy this enemy threat who openly threaten our civilians?
Terrorism
Oath
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 8
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While I agree with the sentiment stated herein but there is a small problem with the military being used to "fight" groups like the KKK, etc. The Posse Comitatus Act (18 U.S.C. Section 1385) was enacted to prevent the use of U.S. troops in combating any form of civil unrest and against dissident groups (KKK, etc). In 2006, as part of the Post Katrina law changes there was an exception to the Posse Comitatus Act, however due to a huge amount of negative sentiment that particular exception was removed in 2007.
As a result, the only agencies permitted to deal with dissidents and radical organizations such as the KKK, et al., is the FBI, state and local police officials.
As a result, the only agencies permitted to deal with dissidents and radical organizations such as the KKK, et al., is the FBI, state and local police officials.
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CPT (Join to see)
PO1 George M is correct. The Constitution is also a double edge sword when it comes to dealing with this issue. Extremist groups have the same 1st, 4th, 5th, and 6th Ammendment right protections everyone else does. It makes it hard to completely stamp these groups out as a result.
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SPC Christopher Smith, I personally agree with you about groups like the KKK being a domestic "enemy." I think such domestic elements (including domestic terrorist groups) are seen as a law enforcement problem to be handled by agencies such as the FBI and state and local police.
Whether the U.S. military should get involved in that fight would, I think, be a policy decision. We'd have to get the order to join that fight from higher. Remember that another part of the oath goes like this: "I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice."
So, if we failed to follow those orders, then I think we would not be keeping our promise in the oath.
Whether the U.S. military should get involved in that fight would, I think, be a policy decision. We'd have to get the order to join that fight from higher. Remember that another part of the oath goes like this: "I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice."
So, if we failed to follow those orders, then I think we would not be keeping our promise in the oath.
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SPC Christopher Smith
CW5 Scott Montgomery, less the FBI, it seems State and Local law enforcement agencies in recent light have active members of the KKK in their ranks (known and unknown).
I agree that we should not actively engage these "enemy" without direct support and guided orders from higher. To do so would be unconstitutional and illegal.
I agree that we should not actively engage these "enemy" without direct support and guided orders from higher. To do so would be unconstitutional and illegal.
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I'll take a controversial view and disagree with your premise that the KKK is a terrorist group. This is not the KKK of the 60s and 70s that was attacking, burning and hanging fellow Americans. This is a few sad old people who can't fill a meeting room the size of a gas station restroom. They might agitate and have the occasional speech at town hall but they are not attacking Americans nor do they pose a threat to America.
There are plenty of other examples you could use that pose a real and present danger to the US. As someone mentions the Posse Comitatus Act, let me add another fire bomb and state that I believe that act was mistakenly made and if it were revisited by the SCOTUS they might even find it to be unconstitutional. It restricts the use of our forces from meeting requirements placed on us by our constitution!
So let's get rid of PCA and go after The New Black Panthers, MS13 and any number of other groups. Many of them comprised of illegal aliens! Once we get rid of them, we can send two boy scouts to tell the last vestige of the Klan to sit down and shut up.
There are plenty of other examples you could use that pose a real and present danger to the US. As someone mentions the Posse Comitatus Act, let me add another fire bomb and state that I believe that act was mistakenly made and if it were revisited by the SCOTUS they might even find it to be unconstitutional. It restricts the use of our forces from meeting requirements placed on us by our constitution!
So let's get rid of PCA and go after The New Black Panthers, MS13 and any number of other groups. Many of them comprised of illegal aliens! Once we get rid of them, we can send two boy scouts to tell the last vestige of the Klan to sit down and shut up.
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SPC Christopher Smith
Please explain what illegal or violent things The New Black Panther Party have done, please. I can understand going after MS13 and several other groups with very violent activities.
The KKK has a long history of violent crime, and that should not be overlooked.
As far as the continuing argument that LEO's are better equipt to handle the situation, how do you handle what some of the people in your ranks are apart of? Seems like there could be chronic issues with conflict of interest.
The KKK has a long history of violent crime, and that should not be overlooked.
As far as the continuing argument that LEO's are better equipt to handle the situation, how do you handle what some of the people in your ranks are apart of? Seems like there could be chronic issues with conflict of interest.
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LTC Joseph Gross
Voter intimidation comes immediately to mind. The klan has a long history of violent crime but not a recent history. Kind of like pointing out that the Democrat Party is the party of slavery. Of course it is true but it isn't recent!
I'm not sure what you are saying concerning LEOs being better equipped to handle it. I disagree with that point and believe the military would be better. We just need to change the law and recognize the possible consequences of that action.
I'm not sure what you are saying concerning LEOs being better equipped to handle it. I disagree with that point and believe the military would be better. We just need to change the law and recognize the possible consequences of that action.
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Posse Comitatus Act prevents us as AC or RC to participate on US soil. The only places you see us would be White House and Embassy type facilities where the Marines guard or obviously on our bases. Until they change the law it is up to the local authorities and if called upon the NG to deal with these issues. We are individuals though can fight it by not participating in them and stop the hate in our sphere of influence. And as the phrase goes "if you see something say something". Until we do that we will see no change.
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LTC (Join to see)
SPC Christopher Smith also, are we stretched too thin as it is worldwide with the new ebola missions and downsizing? Would you recommend the NG assisting in these stateside fight like they did in the border mission?
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SPC Christopher Smith
LTC (Join to see), utilizing the NG would be ideal seeing how many they are more involved in their home States, but understanding Posse Comitatus Act it would not likely happen. Ultimately this was just an interesting idea that crossed my mind and I thought I'd get other military personnels ideas on the subject, the collective mind is great than any one.
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LTC (Join to see)
SPC Christopher Smith as long as it is the gov of the state they can utilize the NG. It is when they get federalized it gets fuzzy.
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Lets not stop with the kkk, although that's as good place to start as any. How about the gangster desciples, vice lords, crips, bloods, latin kings, latin desciples,ms13, mafia, and any of the same ilk?
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SPC Richard Jackson
I agree. I've had occasion to study gangs or ''security threat groups'' as they are labeled in the Illinois Dept of Corrections ,and many Il. law enforcement entities. Ms-13 is considered one of the most violent gangs today. My intent was to ascertain if possible wheather Spc Smith considered any other criminal group aside from the kkk as being terroristic in nature. Make no mistake, I consider all ''gangs'' to be capable of, if not outright advocating terroristic related acts. I just see more threats than the kkk, although they might be the most visible.
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SPC Christopher Smith
I'm less worried about street gangs, they are usually localized and really controlled, but should Ann organization be listed as a terrorist organization with good reason and evidence it should be brought down.
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SPC Christopher Smith, I think this is an excellent question, but it has no easy answer.
One of the tenets of the KKK is that its mission is to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. It's difficult to justify attacking an organization that claims to have the same goals we do. While some may deem the KKK to be a terrorist group, others don't.
The KKK does have a right to free speech, so until they are caught committing acts that (in modern days) tangibly impair our Constitution, there's not much that we can legally do.
One of the tenets of the KKK is that its mission is to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. It's difficult to justify attacking an organization that claims to have the same goals we do. While some may deem the KKK to be a terrorist group, others don't.
The KKK does have a right to free speech, so until they are caught committing acts that (in modern days) tangibly impair our Constitution, there's not much that we can legally do.
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SPC Christopher Smith
SGT (Join to see) while I agree that they are a complex organization, they have been on the domestic terrorist list for years, and unlike other groups they have not been abolished.
Many evil groups and prior claim to want good for their country and people, while committing horrendous acts to others. Let us not forget that not even 50 years ago the organization was still committing violent acts. How do we measure "modern"?
Many evil groups and prior claim to want good for their country and people, while committing horrendous acts to others. Let us not forget that not even 50 years ago the organization was still committing violent acts. How do we measure "modern"?
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SSG John Erny
SPC Shelby Thundercloud, SPC Christopher Smith, Even a broken clock is right twice a day. There is another group that defends the Constitution of the United States. And we are in it! Young people need a compass and I think putting on the Uniform is a damn fine way to establish just that.
I came from a very small town in Nebraska, I had little interaction with people other than whites. A few Native Americans and A few Hispanics was about it.
My room mate from basic was a black man from Georgia. It took us a while to warm up to each other but we did and we are still friends to this day. I am a far better human being for having served as I think most everyone else is too.
People will always form groups, it is part of the human condition, be that beacon of light that will guide young people to make the right choice.
I came from a very small town in Nebraska, I had little interaction with people other than whites. A few Native Americans and A few Hispanics was about it.
My room mate from basic was a black man from Georgia. It took us a while to warm up to each other but we did and we are still friends to this day. I am a far better human being for having served as I think most everyone else is too.
People will always form groups, it is part of the human condition, be that beacon of light that will guide young people to make the right choice.
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When we start removing politicians from office, the true war on terror will begin.
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As PO1 George M. said earlier it's against the law.
I guess you missed the Boston bomber fiasco where an entire city was shut down and the LEO in the area was better armed than the 75th Ranger Rgt.
Imagine that times a million and you have a general idea of what would happen.
The FBI, DHS, and all the other organizations are more than capable.
I guess you missed the Boston bomber fiasco where an entire city was shut down and the LEO in the area was better armed than the 75th Ranger Rgt.
Imagine that times a million and you have a general idea of what would happen.
The FBI, DHS, and all the other organizations are more than capable.
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SFC Steven Harvey
Sir,
You're referring to the Insurrection Act. It's only used under extreme circumstances.
The topic is referring to openly using the military to target individual groups without there being "lawlessness, natural disaster, etc. outside the capabilities of the local governments."
You're referring to the Insurrection Act. It's only used under extreme circumstances.
The topic is referring to openly using the military to target individual groups without there being "lawlessness, natural disaster, etc. outside the capabilities of the local governments."
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