Posted on Dec 11, 2022
What is the Army's open-door policy on retaliation? How do I proceed if someone is trying to block my promotion?
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I have been having issues with my S6 shop on how work is being divided in our BN. I have been doing all the computer admin work, resolving all the computer issues, and all the missions that come up to our company. Mind you, the shop consists of 3 NCOs and 5 Jr. Enlisted.
I have used my PSG open door policy to discuss this issue, and every time he would make promises or would say your work is going to be recognized in form of awards. Or he also would say, "I see how hard you're working and how motivated you're, keep up this work and I will send you to the promotion board this month." after I showed interest in getting promoted to SGT.
Ever since July 2022, I have been asking what I need to improve on to get sent. He would tell me to do or work on a certain thing for the month. Toward the end of the month, I would follow up with my Squad Leader and my PSG to see how well I am performing and if I need to work on anything else. Their replies would be, "you're doing excellent work, keep what you're doing and we won't have an issue with sending you this coming month."
The same promises and requests kept coming and he would change his requirements for the following month.
In October of 2022, he asked me to attend Soldier of the month to prove to him I am ready. I attended, and out of 12 soldiers, I won the Soldier of the month. Yet, he came up with another requirement before being considered. My 1SG asked to send me, but my PSG pulled him aside.
The first week of December, I used the open-door policy with my BN CSM and told him about my situation. He was on my side, especially since I have nothing negative on my consoling packet, my soldier is well taken care of, I scored well above standard on the ACFT, and shot expert on my qual.
My CSM and 1SG agree to send me to the board, then bring it up to my 1st line NCO, my PSG got furious after my SQL called him to let him know of what happened. My PSG asked to talk to me with my SQL over the phone in his office, where he persistently kept on pressuring me to tell him what was said to the CSM. I referenced AR 600-20, about my rights to keep that information concealed. He got frustrated and started yelling and cursing me out. I ended up telling him why I used it, and he tried to bring me down and verbally disrespect me. He also said that he'll do everything in his power to make sure I don't get prompted.
Is it possible that he can block me from being promoted? How should I proceed?
I have used my PSG open door policy to discuss this issue, and every time he would make promises or would say your work is going to be recognized in form of awards. Or he also would say, "I see how hard you're working and how motivated you're, keep up this work and I will send you to the promotion board this month." after I showed interest in getting promoted to SGT.
Ever since July 2022, I have been asking what I need to improve on to get sent. He would tell me to do or work on a certain thing for the month. Toward the end of the month, I would follow up with my Squad Leader and my PSG to see how well I am performing and if I need to work on anything else. Their replies would be, "you're doing excellent work, keep what you're doing and we won't have an issue with sending you this coming month."
The same promises and requests kept coming and he would change his requirements for the following month.
In October of 2022, he asked me to attend Soldier of the month to prove to him I am ready. I attended, and out of 12 soldiers, I won the Soldier of the month. Yet, he came up with another requirement before being considered. My 1SG asked to send me, but my PSG pulled him aside.
The first week of December, I used the open-door policy with my BN CSM and told him about my situation. He was on my side, especially since I have nothing negative on my consoling packet, my soldier is well taken care of, I scored well above standard on the ACFT, and shot expert on my qual.
My CSM and 1SG agree to send me to the board, then bring it up to my 1st line NCO, my PSG got furious after my SQL called him to let him know of what happened. My PSG asked to talk to me with my SQL over the phone in his office, where he persistently kept on pressuring me to tell him what was said to the CSM. I referenced AR 600-20, about my rights to keep that information concealed. He got frustrated and started yelling and cursing me out. I ended up telling him why I used it, and he tried to bring me down and verbally disrespect me. He also said that he'll do everything in his power to make sure I don't get prompted.
Is it possible that he can block me from being promoted? How should I proceed?
Advice
AR 600-20
Policy
Command
Posted 2 y ago
Responses: 8
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You should first open the promotion regulation. If you want to get promoted and say you're ready for promotion, you should already know this regulation because all the answers are in it.
There are two zones for the board, Primary and Secondary. You "may" be sent to the board when you're in your secondary zone, with a waiver. Anyone in your chain of command can deny a waiver.
When you are in the Primary zone you "must" appear before the promotion board, as long as you're eligible.
Your promotion is your responsibility. The answer to who can promote you and withold your promotion is in the regulation. If you believe you are ready for promotion then this is the first regulation you should be reading
There are two zones for the board, Primary and Secondary. You "may" be sent to the board when you're in your secondary zone, with a waiver. Anyone in your chain of command can deny a waiver.
When you are in the Primary zone you "must" appear before the promotion board, as long as you're eligible.
Your promotion is your responsibility. The answer to who can promote you and withold your promotion is in the regulation. If you believe you are ready for promotion then this is the first regulation you should be reading
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SGM (Join to see)
SPC (Join to see) - A lot of us had jobs with high levels of responsibility before enlisting. Doesn't matter.
Please reread SFC (Join to see) 's post.
He wasn't providing his opinion on your maturity, he was making a guess at what your PSG thinks.
He also made a good point: you haven't demonstrated conflict resolution, or at least not mentioned it here. You have elevated the situation.
And it is a situation, not a violation of reg or policy, no one owes you a rec to the board in the secondary zone.
Another point: your promotion is your responsibility, but it kinda feels like you could go about it a little better.
My guess is that your PSG might feel like the sole reason for your performance is due to your very obvious desire to be recommended from the secondary zone.
If the secondary zone did not exist, would you still work your ass off every day while demonstrating leadership attributes and characteristics?
In your post, what you only mention about your performance is doing everything that is asked/told/directed.
What are you doing of your own initiative? Are you looking to see what needs to be done?
You mention that you follow up with your FLL, and ask how you're doing.
Have you ever just followed up with a summary? For instance "Here's what we got done this week, (or month) here's what is still outstanding and my plan for it, and here's what's going on with my Soldier", and then just let your FLL give you an assessment of your performance without asking for it.
Please reread SFC (Join to see) 's post.
He wasn't providing his opinion on your maturity, he was making a guess at what your PSG thinks.
He also made a good point: you haven't demonstrated conflict resolution, or at least not mentioned it here. You have elevated the situation.
And it is a situation, not a violation of reg or policy, no one owes you a rec to the board in the secondary zone.
Another point: your promotion is your responsibility, but it kinda feels like you could go about it a little better.
My guess is that your PSG might feel like the sole reason for your performance is due to your very obvious desire to be recommended from the secondary zone.
If the secondary zone did not exist, would you still work your ass off every day while demonstrating leadership attributes and characteristics?
In your post, what you only mention about your performance is doing everything that is asked/told/directed.
What are you doing of your own initiative? Are you looking to see what needs to be done?
You mention that you follow up with your FLL, and ask how you're doing.
Have you ever just followed up with a summary? For instance "Here's what we got done this week, (or month) here's what is still outstanding and my plan for it, and here's what's going on with my Soldier", and then just let your FLL give you an assessment of your performance without asking for it.
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SPC (Join to see)
SGM, I appreciate your input on this. You are making a valid point here. I will start work on my delivery.
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CPT (Join to see)
SPC (Join to see) - I'm mainly chiming in because you sound like I did 10 years ago.
I was a 38 y/o SPC with an MBA/CFA when I enlisted, and my credentials are on par with a Finance COL. Guess, what, no one cares.
ENJOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the FREEDOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Army hired you to be a SPC doing SPC work. PERIOD!!!!!
Enjoy the position you are in that you don't need to jump through hoops to get more civilian education relative to your peers. That will pay off in spades down the road if you so choose to stay in for the long haul.
You have all this civilian experience, great. I did too. So why did you leave? It's rhetorical. You're in the army now, and under new rules. There is more upside than downside in my opinion.
Play the game and you will move forward. There are regs and laws in place to crush those who prevent you from playing the game and moving forward. It doesn't sound like any of that is blocking you. You sound like I did or thought when I was new and a very over educated SPC surrounded by those 20 years younger.
Understand though, don't go into a situation without fully knowing the regulation game.
**************
Rank is everything in the military. Your attitude acknowledges as such.
The advancement process is very regimented and can be considered restrictive, but it is highly defined and makes it difficult to hold soldiers down without great legal risk to the ones doing the holding.
I was a 38 y/o SPC with an MBA/CFA when I enlisted, and my credentials are on par with a Finance COL. Guess, what, no one cares.
ENJOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the FREEDOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Army hired you to be a SPC doing SPC work. PERIOD!!!!!
Enjoy the position you are in that you don't need to jump through hoops to get more civilian education relative to your peers. That will pay off in spades down the road if you so choose to stay in for the long haul.
You have all this civilian experience, great. I did too. So why did you leave? It's rhetorical. You're in the army now, and under new rules. There is more upside than downside in my opinion.
Play the game and you will move forward. There are regs and laws in place to crush those who prevent you from playing the game and moving forward. It doesn't sound like any of that is blocking you. You sound like I did or thought when I was new and a very over educated SPC surrounded by those 20 years younger.
Understand though, don't go into a situation without fully knowing the regulation game.
**************
Rank is everything in the military. Your attitude acknowledges as such.
The advancement process is very regimented and can be considered restrictive, but it is highly defined and makes it difficult to hold soldiers down without great legal risk to the ones doing the holding.
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SPC (Join to see)
CPT (Join to see) - Thank you so much for the feedback. Great insight. I appreciate you sharing your experience here.
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SPC (Join to see) " "
1: Your PSG having the personal and professional opinion you are not ready and declining to recommend you to the 1SG and CDR for a board appearance in the secondary zone is not retaliation...It's their opinion. And it carries weight...Or did for me as my CSM and I only put NCOs in PSG positions we trusted and were capable.
2: "My CSM and 1SG agree to send me to the board"
Having been a Privet through Sergeant Major over a 27-year career, I can say with 99% certainty, if your Battalion Sergeant Major and your Company 1SG want you to go to the board, you would appear before the promotion board, or at least in the units I served in....a Company CDR would not go against the company senior enlisted advisor's recommendation, nor would a Battalion CDR.
Unit commanders may determine a Soldier has the potential for increased responsibility, the unit commander will recommend the Soldier for promotion and refer him or her to a local
promotion board.....A unit commander will defer in every case I ever had part in, to their company 1SG.
1: Your PSG having the personal and professional opinion you are not ready and declining to recommend you to the 1SG and CDR for a board appearance in the secondary zone is not retaliation...It's their opinion. And it carries weight...Or did for me as my CSM and I only put NCOs in PSG positions we trusted and were capable.
2: "My CSM and 1SG agree to send me to the board"
Having been a Privet through Sergeant Major over a 27-year career, I can say with 99% certainty, if your Battalion Sergeant Major and your Company 1SG want you to go to the board, you would appear before the promotion board, or at least in the units I served in....a Company CDR would not go against the company senior enlisted advisor's recommendation, nor would a Battalion CDR.
Unit commanders may determine a Soldier has the potential for increased responsibility, the unit commander will recommend the Soldier for promotion and refer him or her to a local
promotion board.....A unit commander will defer in every case I ever had part in, to their company 1SG.
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SPC (Join to see)
SGM, I really appreciate your comment. By retaliation, I was referring to being pressured to tell what was said in the open door policy discussion. Even when I stated that I don’t feel comfortable discussing, he started yelling and cursing me and demanding that I tell him.
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SGM Erik Marquez
SPC (Join to see) - " Even when I stated that I don’t feel comfortable discussing, he started yelling and cursing me and demanding that I tell him" That may be a non stellar way to be a leader, but I don't think you will find any traction in having it taken by others as retaliation.
If he had stated " You went over my head and used the open door policy and now I'll never recommend you the 1SG and CDR for promotion." Then MAYBE.
And if you want an older NCO's opinion.... You screwed up in going to the battalion CSM. As has been pointed out, the Company commander make the recommendation for a SM to go to the promotion board when they are in the secondary zone. The proper action if you felt the PSG was irrationally holding you back somehow would have been to speak to your 1SG, if no traction there, use the company commander's open door policy to review the concern.. By your own words you jumped to the BN CSM....Im surprised actually the CSM did not hear your issue, ask you if you have spoken to your Company commander about this and when you said no, told you to go back to your unit and speak to your commander and 1SG 1st. And know, the CSM would have one or both on the phone before you left BN HQ telling them to get to the bottom of the issue and let the BN CDR and CSM know how we can best support the company's mission and needs.
If he had stated " You went over my head and used the open door policy and now I'll never recommend you the 1SG and CDR for promotion." Then MAYBE.
And if you want an older NCO's opinion.... You screwed up in going to the battalion CSM. As has been pointed out, the Company commander make the recommendation for a SM to go to the promotion board when they are in the secondary zone. The proper action if you felt the PSG was irrationally holding you back somehow would have been to speak to your 1SG, if no traction there, use the company commander's open door policy to review the concern.. By your own words you jumped to the BN CSM....Im surprised actually the CSM did not hear your issue, ask you if you have spoken to your Company commander about this and when you said no, told you to go back to your unit and speak to your commander and 1SG 1st. And know, the CSM would have one or both on the phone before you left BN HQ telling them to get to the bottom of the issue and let the BN CDR and CSM know how we can best support the company's mission and needs.
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