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I am currently drilling as a UH60 pilot with the PA ARNG. I have just over three years until 20, but I'm strongly weighing alternate options, specifically: (1) IRR (2) service transfer (to include resigning my commission and enlisting in the Air Guard) or (3) ...getting out altogether.
The IRR is the most attractive option to me but there's a lot of contradictory information on the internet. It seems that online courses are still available to IRR SM but must be approved by the SM's commander in order to earn retirement points, can anyone comment on this?
To be clear: I need a change. I can not continue on the same path I am. I am thankful for everything the Army has given me over the last 17 years but I am finding my current situation incompatible with my civilian employment/home life. My military rank, pay, benefits matter little to me. Im simply trying to find a way to continue to serve in another capacity.
Any help or advice would be appreciated!
EDIT/UPDATE for the sake of others who may read this down the road: It appears that IRR as an option is not feasible for anyone attempting to earn 'good' years towards retirement. Most of the people who point to the IRR as a way to ride out the last year or two are unaware that the Army has removed the ability to earn RP via distance learning. I'm still trying to get a solid answer on how drilling on IRR works. I'm sure there are special circumstances and loopholes but, as far as I'm concerned, IRR is not going to work for me.
Inter-service transfer, on the other hand, has become an attractive option. From what I've gleaned talking to an AF recruiter: Minimum enlistment for prior service is 3 years, though you forego many of the incentives that come with longer contracts. Prior SM can also come in at their last enlisted rank, depending on the unit/job you enlist into. I'll have to attend IET (tech school, the AF equivalent to the Army's AIT) for the job of my choosing but that's it.
Now to convince the Army that losing a qualified aviator is in their best interest...
The IRR is the most attractive option to me but there's a lot of contradictory information on the internet. It seems that online courses are still available to IRR SM but must be approved by the SM's commander in order to earn retirement points, can anyone comment on this?
To be clear: I need a change. I can not continue on the same path I am. I am thankful for everything the Army has given me over the last 17 years but I am finding my current situation incompatible with my civilian employment/home life. My military rank, pay, benefits matter little to me. Im simply trying to find a way to continue to serve in another capacity.
Any help or advice would be appreciated!
EDIT/UPDATE for the sake of others who may read this down the road: It appears that IRR as an option is not feasible for anyone attempting to earn 'good' years towards retirement. Most of the people who point to the IRR as a way to ride out the last year or two are unaware that the Army has removed the ability to earn RP via distance learning. I'm still trying to get a solid answer on how drilling on IRR works. I'm sure there are special circumstances and loopholes but, as far as I'm concerned, IRR is not going to work for me.
Inter-service transfer, on the other hand, has become an attractive option. From what I've gleaned talking to an AF recruiter: Minimum enlistment for prior service is 3 years, though you forego many of the incentives that come with longer contracts. Prior SM can also come in at their last enlisted rank, depending on the unit/job you enlist into. I'll have to attend IET (tech school, the AF equivalent to the Army's AIT) for the job of my choosing but that's it.
Now to convince the Army that losing a qualified aviator is in their best interest...
IRR
Warrant Officers
Edited 5 y ago
Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 13
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There are very few options to earn points for good years in the IRR. They did away with points for correspondence/distance courses in 2016. This isn't waivable, it's just gone for everyone.
For active (a really loaded term, IRR is actually considered "active" reserve....) reservists - with a unit - Ther is a list of DL/Online courses you can take for points & pay. But you will NOT be eligible to do so as an IRR member, barring exceptional circumstances. I forget the details, because it never really impacted me, but the courses must be command approved (you effectively don't have a command...) . In addition, the courses come from a set list that have to do with maintaining your readiness.
You will find it VERY difficult to get good years in the IRR currently. I did finish out my career there, and about the only way yo do it is to get a points only attachment to a unit and drill for free. That's what I did in my case.
It is my personal opinion that big Army is actively discouraging people from "hanging out" in the IRR and is doing everything it can to either nudge them into a unit or separate them from the rolls. If you don't have 20 good years, you could probably hang out there for a few years, but you will likely need to join a unit and drill eventually to get your 20. Also, once you have your 20, you will need to somehow get good years while in the IRR or face separation (that's why I ended up on the points only attachment, despite well over 20 good years).
For active (a really loaded term, IRR is actually considered "active" reserve....) reservists - with a unit - Ther is a list of DL/Online courses you can take for points & pay. But you will NOT be eligible to do so as an IRR member, barring exceptional circumstances. I forget the details, because it never really impacted me, but the courses must be command approved (you effectively don't have a command...) . In addition, the courses come from a set list that have to do with maintaining your readiness.
You will find it VERY difficult to get good years in the IRR currently. I did finish out my career there, and about the only way yo do it is to get a points only attachment to a unit and drill for free. That's what I did in my case.
It is my personal opinion that big Army is actively discouraging people from "hanging out" in the IRR and is doing everything it can to either nudge them into a unit or separate them from the rolls. If you don't have 20 good years, you could probably hang out there for a few years, but you will likely need to join a unit and drill eventually to get your 20. Also, once you have your 20, you will need to somehow get good years while in the IRR or face separation (that's why I ended up on the points only attachment, despite well over 20 good years).
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SSgt (Join to see)
Sir, can you expound on a points only attachment, I'd like to look into this option.
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COL Vincent Stoneking
SSgt (Join to see) - Sure. It's pretty easy in theory. Essentially, you find a unit that is willing to allow you to drill, or perform admin duties, etc. on a points only basis. You get attached via a DA 4651, official orders that specify "points only" attachment. You work out a schedule that's amendable to the unit & you, submit a points-only 1380 thru the unit monthly.
The trick is finding a unit that sees the value in the paperwork and having a member "on the books" that isn't really on their books. In my case, I spent the last 18 or so months of my career grading papers for the Army War College (and loving every minute of it! Great gig.). Of course, I spent the 12+ months prior to that trying to find a unit that was willing to take on a COL in a points only status, especially one with less than 3 years until MRD. This would have been MUCH easier were I in the DC area, but I'm in the OTHER WA.
It can literally be ANY unit, as long as they are willing.
The trick is finding a unit that sees the value in the paperwork and having a member "on the books" that isn't really on their books. In my case, I spent the last 18 or so months of my career grading papers for the Army War College (and loving every minute of it! Great gig.). Of course, I spent the 12+ months prior to that trying to find a unit that was willing to take on a COL in a points only status, especially one with less than 3 years until MRD. This would have been MUCH easier were I in the DC area, but I'm in the OTHER WA.
It can literally be ANY unit, as long as they are willing.
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IRR as an option to get three more good years creditable for retirement, you would need a sponsor unit for those points for online classes, showing up for an AT, or 30 straight days of AT and some UTAs.
https://www.usar.army.mil/IMA/
Other options could include an IST to the ARNG of NY, NJ, MD, WV, OH, VA, etc.
https://www.usar.army.mil/IMA/
Other options could include an IST to the ARNG of NY, NJ, MD, WV, OH, VA, etc.
Official site of the U.S. Army Reserve, the federal military reserve forces of the United States.
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SSgt (Join to see) we RP regulars constantly answer the same dozen questions essentially. You know how many E3/E4 kids are beating down the door trying to be where you are at? I understand the competing demands piece. Got it. You can do 3 years standing in your head in a bucket of sh!t if you had to. As CW5 Jack Cardwell said. Three years in the ARNG pass quick. Recommend riding it out in a drilling status and dropping your retirement at 20years and 59 seconds.
Riddle me this. Do you have enough points to retire if you went IRR right now? You've spent 17 years on this. Walk away with something more than the zoom bags in the closet and the shadow box on the wall.
Another of the dirty dozen RP questions are people trying to get back in, racked with regret that they did not stay in or stay to retire.
At the end of the day it's up to you. Curious as to how enlisting in the ANG solves any of your issues, would you have to go through all or some IET to earn the AFSC? How would transferring to the ANG as an officer fix your problems?
Riddle me this. Do you have enough points to retire if you went IRR right now? You've spent 17 years on this. Walk away with something more than the zoom bags in the closet and the shadow box on the wall.
Another of the dirty dozen RP questions are people trying to get back in, racked with regret that they did not stay in or stay to retire.
At the end of the day it's up to you. Curious as to how enlisting in the ANG solves any of your issues, would you have to go through all or some IET to earn the AFSC? How would transferring to the ANG as an officer fix your problems?
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SSgt (Join to see)
I have more retirement points than most non-aviation soldiers at 17 years will have precisely because of the additional requirements and time spent at the unit. There was a long stretch where I was the first to raise his hand anytime the unit needed to send someone somewhere.
I look at an inter-service transfer as an opportunity to continue to serve (even at reduced pay) until my 20 years are up while possibly learning a new skill that could be useful to me outside of the military.
I look at an inter-service transfer as an opportunity to continue to serve (even at reduced pay) until my 20 years are up while possibly learning a new skill that could be useful to me outside of the military.
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LTC Jason Mackay
SSgt (Join to see) - Realistically I think any inter service transfer unless it is a no training transfer will rack you up an additional service obligation. I'm sorry you got monkey pumped by your previous chains of command. Is it possible to take a non-flight billet at The JHQ or STARC that would be more stable and predictable perhaps. I had a friend who was a CW3 Chinook guy grounded due to LOD medical DQ. They made him a Mobility Officer 882A. He was heart broken but threw himself into unit movement and redeployed my BCT from Afghanistan. Kevin was the consummate professional. He ended up liking it.
Had my best friend at Irwin as a young officer who was a CW2 that was transferred from AH-1 to UH60. He eventually came to grips with no longer being Air Cavalrymen. Just then, someone figured out he was Safety Certified. Coopted to Be the Unit, then BN, then Installation safety officer. Hating being grounded, he left AD Army and joined the Coast Guard. Direct Commissioned as an O3, he flew HH56s off an Ice breaker. Then retired as an O5, learned a foreign language and joined the US State Department.
Were you Street-to-Seat or were you enlisted for a while? What was your MOS? That might be an avenue to consider in either the ARNG or ANG if there was alignment. Have you talked to a ARNG or ANG recruiter about doing this without a break in service or additional obligation?
I'd also check the regulation covering resignations. There is a ARNG and AD versions of that reg.
Had my best friend at Irwin as a young officer who was a CW2 that was transferred from AH-1 to UH60. He eventually came to grips with no longer being Air Cavalrymen. Just then, someone figured out he was Safety Certified. Coopted to Be the Unit, then BN, then Installation safety officer. Hating being grounded, he left AD Army and joined the Coast Guard. Direct Commissioned as an O3, he flew HH56s off an Ice breaker. Then retired as an O5, learned a foreign language and joined the US State Department.
Were you Street-to-Seat or were you enlisted for a while? What was your MOS? That might be an avenue to consider in either the ARNG or ANG if there was alignment. Have you talked to a ARNG or ANG recruiter about doing this without a break in service or additional obligation?
I'd also check the regulation covering resignations. There is a ARNG and AD versions of that reg.
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SSgt (Join to see)
I've got the newest version of AR 135-175 open on my desktop now... unfortunately, unless you invoke them regularly in the conduct of your job, most ARs seem to hide the important stuff in ambiguous language or side notes. Nonetheless, better to read through and have an understanding of the process.
I was enlisted (E5 with PLDC/WLC) for a few years prior to WOCS and that along with the break-in-service issue is certainly something I intend to mention to the ANG recruiter when we meet. Any time spent at IET to get my AFSC is an investment I'm willing to make to transition but I'll be taking a hard look at any connected ADSO.
I was enlisted (E5 with PLDC/WLC) for a few years prior to WOCS and that along with the break-in-service issue is certainly something I intend to mention to the ANG recruiter when we meet. Any time spent at IET to get my AFSC is an investment I'm willing to make to transition but I'll be taking a hard look at any connected ADSO.
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LTC Jason Mackay
SSgt (Join to see) - good luck in your search. It's not an easy call.
I seem to remember that ARNG officers could resign to enlist in the ARNG. Thinking out loud, any chance you could become an Aviation Maintenance Officer. Down side same unit. Upside move you to a different end of the hallway.
I seem to remember that ARNG officers could resign to enlist in the ARNG. Thinking out loud, any chance you could become an Aviation Maintenance Officer. Down side same unit. Upside move you to a different end of the hallway.
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Chief, an option in PA itself that you can look into would be transferring to the 166 RTI. I believe it is 4/166 that runs OCS and WOCS on site.
You can always talk to them and attempt to transfer for that change you need, I know they have MDAY slots in other battalions for NCO’s but I cannot speak to if they have those slots for WO side or not. If they do you could drill during WOCS and help instruct etc.
You can always talk to them and attempt to transfer for that change you need, I know they have MDAY slots in other battalions for NCO’s but I cannot speak to if they have those slots for WO side or not. If they do you could drill during WOCS and help instruct etc.
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The IRR used to be a very good option when there were Reserve Training Units (RTU) where Soldiers could drill for points only. We used to meet once a week for two hours at the New Sanno Hotel (Military rec Facility) in Tokyo Japan. There were similar units all over the USA or wherever large numbers of troops existed overseas. We would also get additional points by volunteering with JROTC at the Camp Zama High School. This history lesson doesn't help your situation though.
To the best of my knowledge, you can still go to the IRR and volunteer for two weeks of active duty every year. There are still some opportunities to get points through online training as well. I hate to see a Warrant Officer resign after 17 years. Enlisting in the Air National Guard or Reserve isn't going to help the situation either, unless you have the time and there is a very interesting enlisted career field you want to go into. If you do enlist into the Ari Force Reserve/National Guard, I hope they will recognize you as a pilot so you can fly the drones.
To the best of my knowledge, you can still go to the IRR and volunteer for two weeks of active duty every year. There are still some opportunities to get points through online training as well. I hate to see a Warrant Officer resign after 17 years. Enlisting in the Air National Guard or Reserve isn't going to help the situation either, unless you have the time and there is a very interesting enlisted career field you want to go into. If you do enlist into the Ari Force Reserve/National Guard, I hope they will recognize you as a pilot so you can fly the drones.
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SSgt (Join to see)
A lot can happen in three years, also! This isn't something I woke up and decided today, though recent events have certainly contributed. I've been struggling with my current situation for years.
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Go air guard. I'm in the PA guard and drive from Chicago (ya, long story). I'm switching to the air guard in IN. Their drill requirements are much easier and more conducive to family/work life. With 3 years to retirement don't get out, earn your retirement
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SSgt (Join to see)
With the restrictions on IRR, this is looking more and more like my best option. Meeting with an AF recruiter next week to discuss my options. I know another pilot who made a similar move and he doesn't regret it. Thanks for the input!
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Wow. I was in the same position as you. I didn’t want to promote, to old to do some things and my career made it difficult for me to be part of the Army. I did opt to stay in. I got out of command and took a position with less demands I just got my 20 and within 3 days put in my retirement. You may want to get an instructor position to ride out the last 3 years. But of your current choice, I would go IRR drill your 50 points per year on your time to get your 20 the go to retired IRR
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