Posted on Jan 28, 2015
As a junior enlisted Soldier, what can I do to address problems I saw during WLC?
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I just graduated WLC. I was fortunate to have an amazing class with a mixed group of individuals. We all hit it off right away and came together quickly. Except for one. We had an older E-5 who had been in on and off for 13 years and was clearly having a hard time adjusting. We all, at some point or another, tried to help her study and practice for evaluations. It never seemed to click, and when she would get frustrated, she would blame us saying we were "too young to know what we were doing".
That's just backstory and not my problem with WLC. What bothered me was the fact that she should have been a No-Go on her first time evaluation for D&C and PRT. She started PRT in the conditioning drill, she executed the movements incorrectly, she read off the PRT card given to her and still called the excercises incorrectly (ex. the extend and flex thigh stretch). Our instructor gave her a do-over and she was a first time Go. This again happened during her D&C evaluation. She called all the commands on the wrong foot, she executed the movements incorrectly, the list goes on. Those are just two evals. She failed a test, was a no go on Land Nav and her briefs were poorly researched, executed and she STILL managed to pass. She graduated with me.
My issue with this isnt that she's bad as remembering and regurgitating commands, its her lack of comprehension of basic tasks.
Why arent these school designed to weed out these problems instead of being a one-size fits all course where everyone is nudged through regardless of being below marginal in almost every exercise? I thought the Army was trying to weed out "toxic leadership" but then the very schools meant to groom our future leaders are pushing them through onto becoming E-6s. The instructors saw the problem and we as NCOs and future NCOs commented on them respectfully and tried to understand why. We were consistently told it was "above their pay grade".
Does anyone know why the instructors, who should be the SMEs, have no authority over situations like this? Or are they just saying that.
The situation has been frustrating not because of this one woman, but because I can only imagine this happens several times over several cycles in all WLC schools.
So what can I do, at my level, to say or do something about it? Waiting until I have enough rank to make it my problem seems lazy. How seriously are the end of course critques looked at and considered?
That's just backstory and not my problem with WLC. What bothered me was the fact that she should have been a No-Go on her first time evaluation for D&C and PRT. She started PRT in the conditioning drill, she executed the movements incorrectly, she read off the PRT card given to her and still called the excercises incorrectly (ex. the extend and flex thigh stretch). Our instructor gave her a do-over and she was a first time Go. This again happened during her D&C evaluation. She called all the commands on the wrong foot, she executed the movements incorrectly, the list goes on. Those are just two evals. She failed a test, was a no go on Land Nav and her briefs were poorly researched, executed and she STILL managed to pass. She graduated with me.
My issue with this isnt that she's bad as remembering and regurgitating commands, its her lack of comprehension of basic tasks.
Why arent these school designed to weed out these problems instead of being a one-size fits all course where everyone is nudged through regardless of being below marginal in almost every exercise? I thought the Army was trying to weed out "toxic leadership" but then the very schools meant to groom our future leaders are pushing them through onto becoming E-6s. The instructors saw the problem and we as NCOs and future NCOs commented on them respectfully and tried to understand why. We were consistently told it was "above their pay grade".
Does anyone know why the instructors, who should be the SMEs, have no authority over situations like this? Or are they just saying that.
The situation has been frustrating not because of this one woman, but because I can only imagine this happens several times over several cycles in all WLC schools.
So what can I do, at my level, to say or do something about it? Waiting until I have enough rank to make it my problem seems lazy. How seriously are the end of course critques looked at and considered?
Posted in these groups: 
Toxic Leadership
NCOES
Toxic Leadership NCOES
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 8
DOC Lopez,
I feel your pain and I don't know where you attended WLC but above my pay grade is a sub standard excuse. I am a LEX Senior Small Group Leader and I know that in my experience that a Soldier such ad the one you describe would not have graduated.
With th hat said, I have served in a fee different NCOA' s and unfortunately, there are Instructors who for one reason or another do not either enforce the standard or are afraid to act or just don't want to be bothered with the process of failing a student. They also might want to create the impression that all of their students are excelling to make them look good.
I do know, that end of course critiques are viewed by the Senior staff and taken very seriously at my NCOA.
I feel your pain and I don't know where you attended WLC but above my pay grade is a sub standard excuse. I am a LEX Senior Small Group Leader and I know that in my experience that a Soldier such ad the one you describe would not have graduated.
With th hat said, I have served in a fee different NCOA' s and unfortunately, there are Instructors who for one reason or another do not either enforce the standard or are afraid to act or just don't want to be bothered with the process of failing a student. They also might want to create the impression that all of their students are excelling to make them look good.
I do know, that end of course critiques are viewed by the Senior staff and taken very seriously at my NCOA.
Suspended Profile
Full disclosure: it came to my attention that the soldier I'm referring to here was injured on her land nav retest and in fact did not graduate. She will be able to come back at a later date.
CSM Charles Hayden
SGT Veronika Lopez You might edit your original post to include that information.
Real knowledge enables better comments.
Real knowledge enables better comments.
A few thoughts on what you can do as a lower enlisted to address problems you observed during WLC:
- Professional dialogue. With anyone you engage using the below TTPs.
- Escalation of force. Ramp up your concerns starting with peers (to ensure you validate your observations and assessments with others) to instructors (to resolve or to obtain their viewpoints on why things are the way they are) up to Academy Commandant or whomever has decision making authority.
- Use the end of course AAR. Most courses have end of course AARs. Use this to have a tight shot group on your thoughts. Issue, discussion, recommendation is a good format.
- Open door policy. If you feel strongly enough, use a commander's open door policy for the person you are able to determine has decision making authority on the problem you have identified.
- Bring up recommended solutions right after you bring up identified problems.
Hope above helps.
- Professional dialogue. With anyone you engage using the below TTPs.
- Escalation of force. Ramp up your concerns starting with peers (to ensure you validate your observations and assessments with others) to instructors (to resolve or to obtain their viewpoints on why things are the way they are) up to Academy Commandant or whomever has decision making authority.
- Use the end of course AAR. Most courses have end of course AARs. Use this to have a tight shot group on your thoughts. Issue, discussion, recommendation is a good format.
- Open door policy. If you feel strongly enough, use a commander's open door policy for the person you are able to determine has decision making authority on the problem you have identified.
- Bring up recommended solutions right after you bring up identified problems.
Hope above helps.
Suspended Profile
Sir, I wrote an honest and respectful end of course critique and I was selected by my peers to go to the Focus Group to address these issues with the QC NCO. Hopefully it makes some small difference, but from what other people in the meeting were saying, they had it worse off than we did: instructors falling asleep during evaluations was a big one. Overall, the lack oversight and communication between the instructors seems to be the biggest problem. Its hard to determine what the fix to a large problem like this when it's in large part human error and bias.
I took it up as far as my rank would allow. It just doesn't seem like enough. One of my instructors seemed deflated when I addressed all of thisese concerns and said this happens every cycle and he can't do anything unless they fail out based on the criteria they're graded on...even if uts poorly executed.
I took it up as far as my rank would allow. It just doesn't seem like enough. One of my instructors seemed deflated when I addressed all of thisese concerns and said this happens every cycle and he can't do anything unless they fail out based on the criteria they're graded on...even if uts poorly executed.
Suspended Profile
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I can understand tthat instructors maybe feel that soldier has the potential to be a good leader, but if im not mistaken, shouldn't they be in the grooming phase when they've reached WLC? You cant teach someone to be a leader in 3 weeks. Its a failure on the unit for sending ate up soldiers (I also understand the funding aspect If they dint use the alloted slots) but then you end up with toxic, now promoable, leaders. It just seems like a hamster wheel of problems. They all seem to tie in together.