Posted on Oct 21, 2016
As a leader do you feel that Land Navigation should be taken out from the Noncommissioned Officer Professional Development System (NCOPDS)?
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Basic Leaders Course (BLC formerly WLC PLDC)
Advanced Leaders Course (ALC formerly BNCOC)
Maneuver Senior Leaders Course (MSLC)
Edited 9 y ago
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 170
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No, I never use it in my line of work and I think it's good to have as a refresher and also its a valuable skill to memorize
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SFC (Join to see)
I can see where you come from. I do believe that Land Navigation is a skill that always needs to be practiced. However I have my good reasons and bad reasons about this. Here is my first good reason, as we know the Army is trying to reduce its current size. Having this in the course curriculum is a great tool. I say this because if you fail Land Navigation in any NCOES course and receive a failed to meet course standards DA1059 this will help with the QMP Process and continue to help reduce the numbers. Now I feel that it is a bad reason to have in any NCOES course as it is a 10 level task. Think about this if you are going to any of the NCOES and cant pass Land Navigation which is a 10 level task you probably shouldn't be going and now we have just wasted Army resources sending that Soldier or Noncommissioned Officer to a school and failed on a 10 level task. Thank you for your response.
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WO1 (Join to see)
SFC (Join to see) - I think it's more so competency level on basic soldiering tasks. For example, if you don't know what you're doing how are your soldiers supposed to learn or retain this knowledge.
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SFC (Join to see)
SGT Holden Johnson thank you for your valuable comment. Now i will ask you this. You as a leader how do your prepare your Soldiers to help them be successful with Land Navigation at BLC?
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every Soldier need to be proficient in Shoot, Move (land nav ) and Communicate
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If you've ever been lost in a deep forest, the you know how "dependable" GPS is.
Way too many people do not know how to read a compass, even with training, and dead reckoning can only take you so far, even if you know what you are doing. Soldiers need to be trained to use both GPS and Map and compass. Every professional development course and MOS course needs to have Land-Nav training. It is too easy to get lost in the wood, and if you need to Call For Fire, you need to know where you are and how to identify where they are.
Way too many people do not know how to read a compass, even with training, and dead reckoning can only take you so far, even if you know what you are doing. Soldiers need to be trained to use both GPS and Map and compass. Every professional development course and MOS course needs to have Land-Nav training. It is too easy to get lost in the wood, and if you need to Call For Fire, you need to know where you are and how to identify where they are.
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I would agree with many here that Land navigation needs to continue to be a part of the NCO development courses. This is a parisable skill and often incites teamwork and refresher training for many members who do not get to use this skill on a daily basis. I have been fortunate that I have always been in Combat arms, or combat support MOS's so have had to stay sharp on this skill. Always remember at the end of the day we are all soldiers and need to stay ready to fight that incudes staying in shape, being able to shoot, move, and communicate. That means being able to get from point A to B, and familiar with our weapons systems to take on and out targets. Being able to communicate to higher our status and receive our orders.
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Land Nav was my favorite part of PLDC! (Although being the machine gunner on the FTX was cool too!) Granted, as a 38A we needed to pass land nav at Bragg to graduate AIT.
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No. when the Alien Overlords take out all the GPS satellites in the first minute of invasion we don't want a bunch of dummies who can't find their way without google maps.
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When the batteries Die or the LT gets the platoon lost how are you going to get home? Map reading and land nav are criticals skills for every Soldier
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Land Navigation is a perishable skill. I do believe it should be left in all levels of professional development and should be a GO/NOGO. If you fail then I guess you were not ready. As leaders we need to ensure we are providing all our subordinates with the training they require. Also if someone is not 100% ready to move to the next level, it is incumbent on us as their leaders to; A. give them the tools to get them ready and B. not allow them to move to the next level until they are ready.
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No! Even though Land Navigation was part of Basic Training, most of the folks in NCOPDS (PLDC) couldn't find their way out of a paper bag with a map and compass and had difficulty with the land navigation module - although most could usually find n s e w by looking at the sun. GPS, mobiles, and wireless access (radios if still used) may not always be available or functional (though not always advisable to use). Best to at least be familiar with land navigation, better to be able to have some good practice using it effectively!
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