Posted on Oct 21, 2016
As a leader do you feel that Land Navigation should be taken out from the Noncommissioned Officer Professional Development System (NCOPDS)?
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Basic Leaders Course (BLC formerly WLC PLDC)
Advanced Leaders Course (ALC formerly BNCOC)
Maneuver Senior Leaders Course (MSLC)
Edited 9 y ago
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 170
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Look be smart! At some point all technology fails, falters or hiccups! GPS works only if you have a.) satellites that work, b.) receivers that work. There are places in this world with little or no satellite coverage, and receivers require power. It's a known fact that EMP kills satellites, and lots of technology unless hardened. Is your GPS EMP hardened- hell no.! Radiation, no power, no batteries does not effective a Map sheet and a compass!! You can't carry out the mission if you can't get there. I know some Lt's still get lost with GPS.
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Negative....Land Nav is an essential hallmark of a Soldier. Infantry Soldiers for example may be more oft in combat positioning where this basic essential skill will save lives.
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If I remember correctly it is coming out of BLC along with the STX portion of it.
NCOES (as it's now called NCOPDS) will ebb and flow like it has previously. Expect in a few years that it will come back, then leave again.
I do like our land nav course for 11B and 11C ALC. You get a card to take with you. On the points we have the clackers that punch a pattern in the box on your card. The course is NOT self correcting.
I've never had to send anyone home for failing. It's not as hard as some think it is.
NCOES (as it's now called NCOPDS) will ebb and flow like it has previously. Expect in a few years that it will come back, then leave again.
I do like our land nav course for 11B and 11C ALC. You get a card to take with you. On the points we have the clackers that punch a pattern in the box on your card. The course is NOT self correcting.
I've never had to send anyone home for failing. It's not as hard as some think it is.
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SFC (Join to see)
MSG Herrington thank you for your response. I ask this question because today in my Foundation Instructor Facilitator Course (FIFC) the topic was brought up and plenty of good discussions came out of it and I wanted feedback from outside sources. I do agree that it is not hard, but like I mentioned in one of my replies to a previous comment we still have Sergeants fail. I know alone in my Advanced Leaders Course (ALC) we had 2 Staff Sergeants(SSG) fail out the course due to failing the Land Navigation course. Once again thank you for your response.
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SGM Billy Herrington
SFC (Join to see) - I feel we should keep it in the appropriate CMF related portions of NCOPD.
With the six core competencies being pushed into the courses, something has to give.
With the six core competencies being pushed into the courses, something has to give.
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CSM Eric Olsen
SGM Billy Herrington Land Nav will not be going away in Infantry or Armor ALC, or Maneuver SLC for a very long time. Although it's a Skill Level 1 task that the Operational Force owns, we must continue to assess our Maneuver Force (Infantry and Armor) NCOs because who else will? We still send NCOs home each class for failing twice. One disclaimer is that the 19K ALC currently only does mounted land nav-no longer dismounted.
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SGM Billy Herrington
CSM Eric Olsen - I completely agree with you and it shouldn’t go away for the CMF’s that have it as a tenant within their tasks.
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There are certain skills every leader should possess. Land navigation is one of them, whether you're a cook or infantryman. When the chips are down you may be the leader troops look at to take charge, simply due to the rank on your chest. I know I'd never want to look back at them and say I don't know how to lead you in this situation.
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This is way too important of a skill to remove. Land Nav needs to be reinforced at every level. There are to many leaders out there who do not know how to use a compass. Even more who do not know how to use a GPS.
When soldiers are lost they depend on their leadership to show them the way... Literally and figuratively. Yes this is a training that takes lots of time, but this is also a key survival skill and a key leadership skill. Your troops need to know that you are competent in your job, and nothing loses that confidence more than getting lost.
You as a leader do not have to be the best at the task, but you do need to be confident enough to train your troops and to double check their work.
Having this as part of your training validates your skill at each level.
When soldiers are lost they depend on their leadership to show them the way... Literally and figuratively. Yes this is a training that takes lots of time, but this is also a key survival skill and a key leadership skill. Your troops need to know that you are competent in your job, and nothing loses that confidence more than getting lost.
You as a leader do not have to be the best at the task, but you do need to be confident enough to train your troops and to double check their work.
Having this as part of your training validates your skill at each level.
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