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Posted on Dec 23, 2013
MSG Martinis Butler
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What would be your perception of an NCO with 5+ years sponsoring his Soldier to the promotion board and still wearing Class A's? Should you really be hearing the excuse about the wear out date?
Posted in these groups: A u s  army infantry first sergeant ASUImages 20 NCOsAmerican flag soldiers Soldiers454274742x356 DA Pam 670-1
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Responses: 41
CPT Intelligence Exercise Planner
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<p>There is no justification for a Senior NCO that has not purchased the ASU.&nbsp; The 'official announcement' of the change was made in ALARACT 099-2011, dated 16 MAR 2011, but we have known it was coming since 2009.&nbsp; Yes, they are expensive but this is something you plan for and, if necessary, save $20 or $30 a month until you have enough money.&nbsp; I am not going to mention the clothing allowance because I don't want to get into the debate on whether that should be strictly for replacement of worn out equipment vs. purchase of completely new requirements (although I will refer you to AR 700-84, par 4-3 which states "for the cost of replacement AND PURCHASE OF NEW ITEMS").&nbsp; Bottom line:&nbsp; Senior NCOs and Officers&nbsp;(yes, I've seen a few CPTs and MAJs running around in greens) have no excuse.</p><p>I have had to purchase new PTs, ASUs, and ACUs all out of pocket over the past thirteen years to the tune of well over a thousand bucks.&nbsp; Yes, it sucks . . . now quit whining and go buy it! :)</p>
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CPT Intelligence Exercise Planner
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12 y

SSG Davenport,

I understand financial resource constraints.  I was a Guard Soldier for 8 years, four of them while going to full time college with a family of four.  But my sympathy only goes so far.  As I said in my original post, it has been over four years since the decision was made and almost three since the OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT!

The State of Michigan went thru a severe budget crisis while I was a member of the Guard (a SPC) and we had no DX for over a year.  When my last uniform became unserviceable, I bit the bullet and ordered two new ones.

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1SG Joe Messier
1SG Joe Messier
11 y
Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah, the Soldier or NCO is not giving an excuse, they are following a directive. The official wear out date is set for 4th Quarter 2015 according to the ALARACT message, get over yourself and enforce the established standard. The day after the wear out date hold a formation and inspect for the new established standard.
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CW3 Kevin Storm
CW3 Kevin Storm
>1 y
There is a wear out date for a reason. It is good right up till that end point. I wore BDU till the end. Why, I hate the ACU uniform. I will be the first one to order new ones when they are available online (I don't live near a base). As for the switching of the boots from black to brown, no issue with that, from tan to coyote brown...WTF. Can we come with one universal boot? A tanker/Paratrooper/everyday boot ?
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SFC Combat Engineer
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10 y
Wear out date is the wear out date. Simple.
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SSG Retiree
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I wouldn't take the NCO/Soldier to the board if they showed up in Greens. The uniform is the first thing people see when you walk in that room, if you want to make a good impression show up in the updated uniform, which shows you are paying attention.&nbsp;IMHO, If you represent yourself in the old uniform it says that you cant manage your money (to include your annual clothing allowance) well enough to get the new one, or that you just don't care.
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SSG Section Sergeant
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12 y
<p>The dress greens are still in compliance. Board members should not count it against those that choose to wear it, as long as they are in compliance with AR 670-1. IMHO, those that choose not to rush out and buy the ASU does not necessarily mean they have</p><p>&nbsp;money management issues. Many people believe there is no reason to rush out and spend money before they need to. Who knows, maybe they have the money already set aside for the ASU. Let's be honest about the annual clothing allowance. It doesn't cover all of the expenses needed to maintain every aspect of uniform wear and appearance, especially since every unit has its own requirements that "add to."</p>
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CPT Intelligence Exercise Planner
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I have to disagree, SSG Hawk. The announcement for the change to ASUs was made in early 2011. The wear out date for the Greens IS SEP 30th of THIS YEAR!! A senior NCO who has not purchased them yet does not fall into a category of person who didn't "rush out and by the ASU", at this point they have procrastinated on the purchase!
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SFC Signal Support Systems Specialist
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>1 y
Sir, please review the following information taken from ALARACT 099/2011

1. THIS MESSAGE REVISES ALARACT MESSAGE 202/2008,
PARAGRAPHS 8, 13, 17 AND 18.

2. PARAGRAPH 8 IS CHANGED TO READ: THE MANDATORY
POSSESSION DATE FOR THE NEW ASU ITEMS IS 1ST QUARTER, FY
2016.

3. PARAGRAPH 13 IS CHANGED TO READ: SERVICE CAP IS AN
OPTIONAL WEAR ITEM FOR MALE/FEMALE CORPORALS AND ABOVE.

4. PARAGRAPH 17 IS CHANGED TO READ: SOLDIERS CAN STILL
CONTINUE TO TAKE THEIR DA PHOTOS IN THE ARMY GREEN SERVICE
UNIFORM UNTIL THE WEAR OUT DATE OF 4TH QUARTER FY 2015.

5. PARAGRAPH 18 WILL BE CHANGED TO READ: THE WEAR OUT
DATE FOR THE ARMY GREEN SERVICE UNIFORM WITH ACCESSORIES IS
THE 4TH QUARTER OF FY 2015.
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MAJ Senior Signal Oc
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>1 y
SSG Hawk,
I have to disagree with you. The rush time was five years ago when this phase out stuff started. I can tell you after talking to DA promotion board personnel at HRC over the last two years I was given this note, " Where the official policy states that the wear out date is 2015 wearing the old uniform will be looked down on by the board." In fact during last years MAJ board a CPT was non-selected for promotion because he was wearing his Class As. It comes down to if you want to make this a career and move forward than you have to be proactive.
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SFC Stephen P.
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The green service uniform is equivalent to the blue service uniform. Should I also disregard a soldier's M-16A2 qualification since we now have M-4s? New does not mean better, and old does not mean obsolete. The adoption of the ASU is supposed to be a cost saving measure, and replacing a perfectly serviceable uniform prior to the wear out date is wasteful.<br><br>We were warned with the implementation of the ASU that soldiers would appear in a mix of uniforms. I simply cannot understand why leaders are so offended by green.<br>
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MSG Human Intelligence Collector
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12 y
No doubt the catch all phrase of not professional would be used to justify certain service member's dislike of the old greens.  My opinion is that if the Army wanted the greens to go away a long time ago they should have made the wear out date a long time ago.
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ASU and Class A's
SGM Steven Richards
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While NCOs are still authorized to wear the Class A uniform, it does send a signal. &nbsp;As our Nations Army continues to downsize we are looking to retain those that are best qualified not just fully qualified. We are going to ask a great many fully qualified Soldiers who have performed successfully to go home. Purchasing the ASU not only sets an example for your peers and subordinates but also tells a promotion board that you have bought into the Army as a Career and are doing everything in your power to advance your career. &nbsp;When your record goes in front of a Senior Promotion board every little thing adds up and I can personally tell you that a DA photo in the ASU really stands out compared to the Class A uniform. &nbsp;
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MAJ Senior Signal Oc
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Well put SGM.
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As a platoon sergeant I know who in my platoon has greens and who has ASUs. &nbsp;When I select a SPC to go to the promotion board if they have ASUs, the NCO will have ASUs. &nbsp;If they have greens, the NCO will have greens. &nbsp;They are still authorized and you cannot fault them for that. &nbsp;When I was at my SGT board I had ASUs and a lot of others had greens. &nbsp;The CSM straight up asked everyone why they didn't have ASUs. &nbsp;A question I got to dodge because I was in ASUs. &nbsp;The only thing that bothers me is when one person is wearing something and someone else is not. &nbsp;Pay day activities is the worst and I do want everyone to get ASUs.<div><br></div>
SGT Chris Hill
SGT Chris Hill
12 y
You stated that if one of your Soldiers is going to a board in greens, you would make the NCO sponsor wear greens as well. What legitifies your right to do that? Thats just as bad of an impression as the Soldier wearing greens! There's no way in hell I'd do that, unless it's backed by regs, you're wrong too. Yes it does cost money, the army pays all of us to maintian our gear and purchase new if needed. I'd have a one on one with my Soldier and pick a agreed goal date of when they will plan to purchase the ASU's and have it on a 4856. If they can save money to go on leave, they can save money to buy ASU's.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
SFC Michael Hasbun
12 y
It would also be difficult to enforce. My greens were thrown away after my ASU's were ready to go...
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CW3 Network Architect
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12 y
My greens still have SSG rank on them...:)
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SGM Steven Richards
SGM Steven Richards
>1 y
Greens have a wear out date so the entire Army has time to get that clothing allowance and purchase the New ASU. Motivated Soldiers who go above and beyond is what the Army wants to retain. It's your career and those you lead and set the example for! Waiting to the last minute tells everyone something about you! Bottom line is whatever excuse you want to use the promotion boards won't be able to hear them! How about start setting an example that your the professional the Army wants to retain!
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MSG Giovani DeJesus
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First let me start out saying that it would be nice if all Soldiers took pride and purchased the new uniform, we all would like that, but in saying that....I thought Leaders, especially NCO's, since it's in our creed are suppose to treat Soldiers FAIR and IMPARTIAL. It sounds cool to puff your chest out and say "I wouldn't send the Soldier to the board" or "I'd make the Soldier go out and buy the uniform", you have to be fair and impartial. A wear out date has been set for the 4th QTR of 2014, so any day before that the Soldier is within regulation, yes I said regulation; you know "<span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small; line-height: 15 [login to see] 69727px;">a rule or directive made and maintained by an authority." so if you're not upholding the regulation then what's the sense of having one? You have to think and be smart about this, because if you deny a Soldier anything because they don't have the new uniform, that's an IG complaint all day every day, you can not treat that Soldier any other way than fair and impartial. Does it say something about the Soldier.....maybe, but how will you justify denying a Soldier anything when there is a wear out date in writing, all they have to do is refer back to that. I know a lot will not like what I said, but please let me know how will you defend your actions when legally you can't. I'm open to a mature discussion, I've seen some of these post get out of hand in the past.</span>
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CW5 Senior Ordnance Wo Career Manager
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I would keep the perception in the back of my mind and never forget. In most cases, I believe outstanding leaders will stay abreast of changes, regardless of a wear-out date.
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SSG Cryptologic Linguist
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Bottom line, regardless of the wear-out date, if you're going to continue to wear Class A's instead of switching over to ASU's, just know that you're going to be perceived differently from everyone else. When your unit as a whole for whatever reason has to wear the dress uniform and you're the only person still wearing Class A's, from the outside looking in you're just going to be referred to as "that guy".
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1LT Infantry Officer
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My perception would be my response: "That is not the uniform of someone who gets promoted ahead of their peers."
Then I would proceed to ignore him and board the Soldier. Some awesome Soldiers grew up under shoddy leaders.
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SFC S3 Operations Nco
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I would be extremely embarrassed for him. Doesn't lead from the front. No excuse at all.
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