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<p>Everyone that knows me knows that I am not racist and despise racism but the Army has kicked a hornets nest with the recent publicity on the Black Engineer of the Year Award, or BEYA, conference, held in Washington D.C., Feb. 7-8.
</p><p>We as a profession of arms should not be supporting segregating awards based on race. </p><p>I am aware that this is not an Army award but a civilian award to civilian engineers, but the Army should not be promoting or supporting programs such as these merely because of the image they portray.</p>
</p><p>We as a profession of arms should not be supporting segregating awards based on race. </p><p>I am aware that this is not an Army award but a civilian award to civilian engineers, but the Army should not be promoting or supporting programs such as these merely because of the image they portray.</p>
EO
Awards
Racism
Edited 12 y ago
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 26
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I see rank more of a bias for awards than I do race; we give awards to Officers and senior NCOs and hardly consider the troop in the mud doing the hard work day in and day out. This might just be a Marine problem, but none the less it is a problem.
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SrA Zachary Bolling
I saw this in my time as well. We were deployed to Camp Bucca Iraq and us "minions" were out in the mess of everything and got what we earned. All of the personnel back on base E-7 and above including all officers received a Bronze Star. How much sense does that make?
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I could see the issue if it was a conferance that the Army held Annually or created but from what i gathered it isnt an Army award. It was an award that someone in the Army happened to get which is why there was so much support form D.C.
guess I don't see the big deal. The Army puts on EO Observances every month to honor or remember minorities. So why is it such a big deal that a Black NCO recieved an award from an outside agency during Black History Month?
I love it when a statement starts with " im not racist BUT" or something to that affect. Why do we need place emphasis on that? If it is a real issue and race has nothing to do with it than why start off by defending yourself?
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CPT (Join to see)
When people start with a disclaimer, it is exactly admitting that you know your next phrase will disprove the former. "I'm not a racist but,..." is right up there next to "With all due respect...".
SSG Pelteir, I see a distinction between historical observances intended to raise awareness and giving a needlessly exclusionary award. I can totally get behind best Engineer vs. Best Soldier because I see "Engineer" as a valid subset of "Soldier" with a separate subset of skills to be awarded. I could even see giving separate awards for Officers/Enlisted as the roles are different. Would you give an award for "Best Engineer Over 6' Tall"? No, because there is nothing about height tied to job performance.
As soon as you give an award like this, what you are in effect saying is that you (or your organization) feels the need to provide recognition for a person who otherwise would not receive recognition. If you support such awards because you feel a certain population is overlooked, your are aiming your efforts poorly. Fight to make sure that people who do equal (or better) caliber of work are recognized accordingly (hence the retroactive awarding of Medals of Honor to previously overlooked service members). If you support such awards because you want to placate "those people" and demonstrate your supposed commitment to diversity, yes, some people will applaud your efforts, but know that there are others, such as myself, who view these things as a revival of "separate but equal." The thought process being if we give "them" a banquet of their own, maybe they won't show up at "ours."
If a civilian or civilian organization wants to honor a minority service member who they feel is being overlooked by the larger military award system, they should contact their Congressperson.
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SFC (Join to see)
CPT you hit the nail right on the head, especially the placate part. I have always argued the point of the authorized ethnic observance months in AR600-20 and how they patronize those groups. We are all proud of our heritage and should feel free to exercise that pride whenever we choose.
However when you look closely at those groups that are recognize by regulations they all have a common ground. At some point in US history they were treated very badly or better yet screwed over. Starting this year I have been informed that we will start recognizing gay and lesbian service members with "Pride Month". This will undoubtedly cause major waves in the Army because now we are interfering with individual moral standings.
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SSG (Join to see)
CPT Wolfer,
I appreciate your perspective on this, and you brought light to some things I didn't think about.
If you don't mind I would like to ask you a question. What would you do if you were notified that you were being nominated for an award of this nature? Being that you feel so strongly that there is no place for recognition of this matter, would you turn down the Nomination?
I only ask because seeing that so many feel the same way you do, I would be willing to bet that many would set aside there feelings on the matter to accept the award, recognition, and the benefits of receiving the award.
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CPT (Join to see)
SSG Pelteir,
When I finished graduate school, I was desperate for a job in my field. I got an interview for "Minority Academic Advisor" at the exact school I wanted to work at. I took the interview, but when they offered me the job, I said I wouldn't take it unless the "Minority" term was dropped. It totally threw them for a loop, but I explained my reasons. I got the job, with the new title. Two years later, I was the Director of Academic Advisement. I feel very strongly that the promotion would have never happened if I had not insisted on redefining, not just the title but the role (the incumbent only advised minority students - awful!)
Please tell me where on my ribbon rack this prestigious award goes. Right, because only real awards go there. I am constantly reminded that I am a minority, so I don't need a plaque. It would be nice to hear recognition for excellence, but not with some kind of asterisk or caveat. No, I'm good enough at what I do to decline.
That said, I'm not going to embarrass anyone. If I didn't know I was going to receive the award and got called on stage, I would behave respectfully and address it privately. There is a time and a place.
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I do not see a person’s color, race, religion, sex, age, orientation, political party, national origin or fave breakfast cereal(because in a firefight NONE of that shit matters). I see Green. That is all.
ANYTHING that divides us is wrong.
ANYTHING that divides us is wrong.
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SFC (Join to see) I couldn't agree more. Maybe I oversimplify it, but my opinion is that having "segregated" anything only perpetuates a divide that would be best put in everyone's past.
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I try to be a common sense kind of person:
What would people think if there was a ‘white soldier of the year award, white entertainment television, white college fund’...
If there would be an issue doing this we need to rethink what message we are sending by having those programs. We need to stop thinking we can make race less of an issue by making race the central issue. No one should be punished nor rewarded based on race.
Equality for all. To do any less is to foster racism...
What would people think if there was a ‘white soldier of the year award, white entertainment television, white college fund’...
If there would be an issue doing this we need to rethink what message we are sending by having those programs. We need to stop thinking we can make race less of an issue by making race the central issue. No one should be punished nor rewarded based on race.
Equality for all. To do any less is to foster racism...
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SFC (Join to see)
I expressed that exact message during my teleconference with certain representatives in DC, as well as reminded them of the content of a certain speech made in 1963.
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LTC (Join to see)
A great leader wisely once said...
"I want my children to grow up in a country where they are judged by the content of their character, not the color of their skin"
Martin Luther King Jr.
"I want my children to grow up in a country where they are judged by the content of their character, not the color of their skin"
Martin Luther King Jr.
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LTC (Join to see)
why did you express that during teleconference? was the conference about racial quotas? what was the context and situation?
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SFC (Join to see)
I completely understand but I just couldn't stand by and allow such a thing to continue without some answers.
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LTC (Join to see)
There can be many motivations for people to have conversations like this about such a delicate topic. I for one am doing so to learn from my peers, challenge my beliefs, develop and share my own presuppositions. Everyone is being very respectful and serious and we have all types of people participating. SSG Garza, obviously you have something to share from your experience. Your a SSG, you have been around a while. Let hear your prespective. Share it, the worst that could happen is that we all could broaden our perspective.
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SSG (Join to see)
From my experiences what I have come across:
1. Researching and compiling data to determine the number and type of awards by type, male, female, race, ethnicity, grade and rank. This goes one of two ways either for the comparison of statistical analysis with other historical data.
2. This compilation usually arises when there's been an IG complaint and may instead fall in the realm of EO. One would think in this day and age this couldn't happen in our army, you know the one of professionals, dress right dress, Army values, etc etc.
No one will admit, in my experience, that there is some outright bias on awards given to individuals and that it has to do with the color of someone's skin. It does happen and you can hear the whispers in the formations, its blatantly obvious.
I been in the award boards, especially during deployment for example, seen first hand after compiling data, I honestly don't know how some people sleep at night. Perhaps the awards were downgraded and justifiably so, maybe I read into it too much, but I been around long enough and kind of figure out something isn't right. But when you experience that first hand yourself, you take a step back and go "WTF just happened hear".
Yeah, I was that guy, after the Co Cdr just handed me a COA, got back in formation, took the COA out of the cover, folded it and put it in my cargo pocket. Right before that COA, another soldier ahead of me received a impact ARCOM, for work & training I did, which somehow they got the credit for. Minorities were outnumbered 3 to 1, I've seen who the awards went to, the stats don't lie. This however is only specific with two of the units I was with. I can't speak for other units, but when you work in the G-1, you see a lot of things that cannot be unseen.
As for the issue that SFC (Join to see) brought up, that was someone's piss poor planning and misguided thinking there. Who thinks this stuff up? I can honestly say that's the first time hearing something like this happening, ever. I must have missed out on the Hispanic HR Specialist of the Year Award which they give out during the National Hispanic heritage month, right?
1. Researching and compiling data to determine the number and type of awards by type, male, female, race, ethnicity, grade and rank. This goes one of two ways either for the comparison of statistical analysis with other historical data.
2. This compilation usually arises when there's been an IG complaint and may instead fall in the realm of EO. One would think in this day and age this couldn't happen in our army, you know the one of professionals, dress right dress, Army values, etc etc.
No one will admit, in my experience, that there is some outright bias on awards given to individuals and that it has to do with the color of someone's skin. It does happen and you can hear the whispers in the formations, its blatantly obvious.
I been in the award boards, especially during deployment for example, seen first hand after compiling data, I honestly don't know how some people sleep at night. Perhaps the awards were downgraded and justifiably so, maybe I read into it too much, but I been around long enough and kind of figure out something isn't right. But when you experience that first hand yourself, you take a step back and go "WTF just happened hear".
Yeah, I was that guy, after the Co Cdr just handed me a COA, got back in formation, took the COA out of the cover, folded it and put it in my cargo pocket. Right before that COA, another soldier ahead of me received a impact ARCOM, for work & training I did, which somehow they got the credit for. Minorities were outnumbered 3 to 1, I've seen who the awards went to, the stats don't lie. This however is only specific with two of the units I was with. I can't speak for other units, but when you work in the G-1, you see a lot of things that cannot be unseen.
As for the issue that SFC (Join to see) brought up, that was someone's piss poor planning and misguided thinking there. Who thinks this stuff up? I can honestly say that's the first time hearing something like this happening, ever. I must have missed out on the Hispanic HR Specialist of the Year Award which they give out during the National Hispanic heritage month, right?
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I am still hoping for the Best Portuguese LT of the Year award. Being Portuguese is like being Pork. We are the other white meat. With a name like Rosa everyone thinks your Mexican and Puerto Rican. When I met my wife she even thought that Portugal was in south America. But none the less I am a proud American.
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