Posted on May 15, 2020
SSG Squad Leader
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Open discussion if anyone as an example they have seen, or are dealing with right now. Is their a conflict of interest between UCMJ and our own rights?
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Responses: 37
MSG Stan Hutchison
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No one in the military today was forced to join! Period!
Sorry if someone did not understand the contract they signed, the oath they took.
Suck it up until ETS.
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SSG Squad Leader
SSG (Join to see)
>1 y
I’ll make sure they’re aware of that
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MSG Stan Hutchison
MSG Stan Hutchison
>1 y
SFC Bernard Walko - Sometimes the obvious needs to be explained,,,
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CPL Sarah Stilwell
CPL Sarah Stilwell
>1 y
Roger that!
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SSG Xavier Salazar
SSG Xavier Salazar
>1 y
A word to the wise is sufficient.
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MAJ Audiology
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No not at all.

Your 2nd amendment rights are not infringed. You can own a firearm you just can’t have it in the barracks. Just like I can’t have a gun at my civilian job in the VA.

Free speech - you can still say what you want in the military, but it’s one of the employers who will hold you accountable for what you say/post online in social media. It’s not really different than any government civilian job. Many government jobs have social media policies. Many of us are restricted by things such as the Hatch act.

You weren’t drafted. You signed up just like a civilian could take a job and choose to abide by the rules of that job. Yes harder to get out of your employment contract than a civilian one, but still no our rights are not being violated.
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PO2 Quentin Steinberg
PO2 Quentin Steinberg
>1 y
Last 2 1/2 yrs I was in the Navy, PO2 (E-5) I was assigned to the base Police at
NAS Miramar near San Diego CA. There were so many junior enlisted that would try to get out of some infraction or other, by crying about their rights being violated In one way or another. The advantage that Military Police have over our civilian counterparts, is that the UCMJ covers things like "Disrespecting superiors" and "Failure to follow a lawful order"
As you can imagine, the demographic that represented the vast majority of interactions were young enlisted who had recently been assigned to their first duty station, after spending their first year of their enlistment being taught what a badass they were when add alcohol and you now have the makings of busy Saturday night, dealing with young men and, to a lesser degree, woman, that have no compunctions what so ever of letting you know that they were well aware of their civil rights and are making a list to keep track of every violation of those rights that you had violated!
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SFC Bryan Stetzer
SFC Bryan Stetzer
>1 y
Update: I hunted this article down. It was actually the Summer 1996 issue of NCO Journal. It can be found here: https://static.dvidshub.net/media/pubs/pdf_28293.pdf on page 4.
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MAJ Bryan Zeski
MAJ Bryan Zeski
>1 y
I think we could make an argument that you DO, in some sense, give up some free speech rights. If we could simply be fired, I could see where it wasn't a Constitutional infringement - but, if we can go to jail - which we can - then you DO give up some element of free speech to join the military.
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CPL Sarah Stilwell
CPL Sarah Stilwell
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I was told by a flight attendant that the airline didn't allow them to have social media accounts featuring employees in uniform either
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
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What is your example? I'm gathering you wouldn't have popped this question if you didn't have one.
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Cadet 2LT (Pre-Commission)
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MSG (Join to see)

Thank you for the wisdom sergeant
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MAJ Bryan Zeski
MAJ Bryan Zeski
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Cadet 2LT (Join to see) - You are correct. A Commander has no authority to inspect off post housing.
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CPL Sarah Stilwell
CPL Sarah Stilwell
>1 y
SSG (Join to see) I didn't have internet or phone calls in iraq for a year. I may be locked down with the rest of the usa but I got netflix lol.
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CPL Sarah Stilwell
CPL Sarah Stilwell
>1 y
SSG (Join to see) I see where your coming from. I knew a lot of guys who felt better with a gun in the home when they lived on base. I grew up on base as a kid too. From what I understanderstood it was a law about federal property. You cant have a gun at the off base commissary or VA clinics either. So i get how you feel if your use to having it with you. Unfortunately it's just one of those rules. Like having PT at 5am, it's just part of the deal.
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Being in the Army, do you think your constitutional rights are violated in some way or form?
MAJ John Lavin
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Edited >1 y ago
In some areas being in the Army gives you Civil Rights protections you could never afford in civilian life. For example in the Army you have a right to go to the JAG if you are subjected to fraudulent treatment because you are a soldier for legal advise. Total cost to you for seeking the advise from the JAG, Zero. Try getting free services from a Civilian Lawyer. I got free representation from a JAG because I had a car loan that I paid off and all of a sudden it started getting letters demanding additional payments. I had proof that I paid the off the loan but I kept getting threatening letters. One letter from the JAG fixed the whole mess. My fee from the JAG, Zero.
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SFC Bryan Stetzer
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I would say yes, youu give up some Constitutional rights when you join the miitary, but that's part of volunteering. Examples? 4th Amendment, freedom from unreasonable search and seizure. The chain of command can conduct health and welfare, or even search your barracks room, anytime they want. They can also force you to provide urine and blood samples without due process of law. On the civiian side, not even close. Want another? 1st Amendment, freedom of speech. In a civilian job, tell your boss to go f**k himself and you get fired. Army, you can get restriction, extra duty, loss of rank, loss of pay, and even go to jail. Another? 1st Amendment again, freedom of association. By regulation, you cannot belong to certain organizations (i.e. white supremacist, racist, etc). Don't get me wrong, they're a bunch of festering ass-craters, but it's still a limit on free association. How about "off-limits establishments"? This could also be called a limit of freedom of association. Another one, under freedom of speech, is wearing awards and decorations you're not entitled to. The Stolen Valor act was struck down by the Supreme Court, and several violators were released, because the Court decided that wearing whatever you wanted, including military decorations, was protected under the 1st Amendment. Try doing that in the Army and see what happens. Shoot, if we really want to go that direction, how about the 3rd Amendment, no quartering of soliders in your home during peacetime? I mean, if they decide to put someone in your barracks room, or even famiy housing, do you have anything to say about it? So yes, you do give up some rights in the interest of good order and discipline.
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SGT Mary G.
SGT Mary G.
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SGT Lori Adams - About ownership . . . in AIT one of the people was laying out in the sun and got a terrible sunburn. That was the end of her service because she had "damaged government property".
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1px xxx
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SGT Mary G. stuff like that is bullshit. We always joked about that but someone is abusing Regs in my opinion if that’s true. I injured myself too many times to count while in the military and got severely sunburned while deployed (not sunbathing) but as a blonde haired and blue eyed SM it’s hard to avoid sometimes. Thankfully I had a Command Staff who used common sense.
SGT Mary G.
SGT Mary G.
>1 y
SGT Lori Adams - I agree. And permanent party command staff MUST have common sense. This was still early in training though, and the first time we had any freedom. The entire company had all been warned, specifically, to not get sunburned. We did wonder if it was some sort of a set-up though. The blonde haired blue eyed, bright lobster red SM did not seem to be upset about it and truly was in physical pain. It was a serious burn. Maybe she wanted to leave? We had been warned very sternly so it was like she was intentionally pushing a boundary that had been very specifically emphasized. I was fortunate with my Command Staffs too.
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SGT Mary G. people like her do not realize what they have done to their lives. What’s on their DD214 matters.
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SFC Herve Abrams
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First, all government employees, including military employees, are agents of the government. The Constitution places limits and restrictions on what the government, and its agents, may do. For example, the government and its agents may not infringe on the people’s freedoms of speech, religion, assembly, etc. therefore, the actions of government employees may legally be regulated and restricted to protect the rights of the people.
Next, government employees are also people. As part of the populace, all government employees have certain constitutional rights, but many of those rights only fully apply in their roles as people, not in their roles as government agents. That isn’t to say government employees have no rights, but that those rights can be regulated and restricted. Speech is a good example. As a government employee, your bosses may legally restrict your speech while at work and during tours of duty. Even off duty, government employees who present themselves as such, to the media for example, are subject to those restrictions and limitations.
Lastly, as a member of the military and in duty status, you are on duty 24/7. Members of the military are also subject to additional restrictions and regulations due to the national security responsibilities attached to their duties.
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SFC Casey O'Mally
SFC Casey O'Mally
>1 y
Understand all. But....

How does posting on Facebook (TM) (for instance) That "my Commander is a jackass" violate any of the above? Yet exercising my freedom of speech in this manner opens me up (theoretically) to not just a fine or being fired, but to incarceration. Granted, the likelihood of being tossed in the brig for that one post is exceptionally low, however the way UCMJ is written, it is entirely possible.
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SFC Herve Abrams
SFC Herve Abrams
>1 y
SFC Casey O'Mally, the answer lies within the UCMJ. Each regulation is supported by reason and purpose. Maintaining order and discipline is critical to accomplishing military missions. That includes conduct on and off duty and on social media.
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SSG William Zopff III
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After 22 years of service, with my experiences managing and mentoring soldiers. The UCMJ and military services does infringe upon our constitutional rights, by design, military service has to be the soldiers (airmen, marines & sailors) lead by the officers. It won’t work any other way. But remember, you volunteered to for-go your rights to serve your country. So, don’t make an issue out of nothing. The UCMJ helps more than it hurts; if you fall directly under the necessities of the UCMJ, then your just realizing Justice to correct your behavior.
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1LT Medical-Surgical Nurse
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Can you really call it a violation if you knew (or should have known) the conditions of enlistment/appointment/commission?
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Cadet 2LT (Pre-Commission)
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yes sir you can, with all due respect
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CW2 Electronic Warfare Technician
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Why do we keep getting questions like this when it's a VOLUNTARY FORCE. You chose to join, you signed the form (many multiple times).

In regards to 2A, it's not just the military, weapons aren't allowed on ANY Federal property unless you are a federal agent. They aren't allowed in the barracks because the barracks are mostly full of young, drunk, hormone laden, immature people.
In regards to Free Speech - the military has one thing to control and enforce rank structure...your pay. We need rank structure to work or else we'll be as useful as the Nepal Navy. If we could just tell off anyone and not listen to them without fear of reprisal/reprimand there wouldn't be a rank structure, and we're not evolved enough to pull that off.
You follow the rules you agreed on or else you don't get paid, keep doing it and you're fired. That simple.
And I hate to repeat it but here goes: We don't practice the Constitution, we defend it.
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CW2 Electronic Warfare Technician
CW2 (Join to see)
>1 y
SSG (Join to see) scroll down, this has already been discussed before. Even then its a ridiculous question/discussion.
I may sound like a grumpy guy, but repetition and styff that doesn't really matter just wastes server space.
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SSG Squad Leader
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Oh you mean the 6 year and 5 year old post ? And one of them is not even referring specifically to the topic we’re discussing? Check Roger
I think this conversation is over
I think a point is being missed and I have made a disclaimer comment regarding why I asked the question. E5T Out. CW2 (Join to see)
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SGT David Goodno
SGT David Goodno
>1 y
We're getting more questions like this because the world have become soft and allowed it to spill over into the military. Look at the world today; everyone gets all bent out of shape it they get offended or someone says something that's true, but an unpopular view. Recruits are soft and thin-skinned. No one cared about my feelings when I was in, and it made me a better person. We've coddled troops and allowed lower enlisted to become weak, argumentative and talk back to leadership. This new army lacks discipline, and I for one am glad I'm not a part of it. Stress cards and feelings? You think the enemy is going to call a timeout in a fire-fight because a soldier gets stressed?
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SGT David Goodno
SGT David Goodno
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SGT David Goodno *... the world *has* become soft...
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SGT Robert Wager
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I always told my soldiers they should have read the full contract before they signed it.

When people thank you for your service and sacrifice, they understand that as a soldier you are giving up some of your “rights” to protect all of theirs. While you are under contract you are governed by the UCMJ. You can be criminally charged for words, deeds, and attitudes that are not criminal acts in the civilian world. Violation of Article 91 for example is a criminal act that can land you in jail for 9 months for being “disrespectful” towards an NCO. Imagine if that was a crime in the civilian world.
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SSG Squad Leader
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Jail time for 9 months for disrespect seems extreme but I understand
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