Posted on Aug 1, 2018
SGT Infantryman
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Our CO caught a soldier not wearing eye protection during a land navigation exercise. He decided to make the entire company wear eyepro yo prove a point. Is this necessary? Why not punish the individual soldier?
Posted in these groups: 454274742x356 DA Pam 670-1Discipline1 DisciplineTrain2 Training
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
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Yes. Soldier knew the standard. Soldier's buddies knew the standard. I would venture a guess that there were a few (if not more) Soldiers within the unit that saw said Soldier not wearing them and didn't do any corrections. Hence the Commander's decision.
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PO2 Jeffery Jones
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Agreed that the CO can. Unless CO was the first set of eyes on, it should never have gotten that far. NCO's should have seen and corrected.
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CSM Richard StCyr
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Yes, yes he can young Jedi. Punishing the miscreant is fine but there's something to be said for instilling an environment of peer enforcement.
Bet you folks will be more apt to correct your buddies when they aren't squared away, just think next time you all let a buddy slip you could be wearing brain buckets or OTV's, or doing chock block drills all in the name of instilling discipline and team work.

Ask yourself these questions ...
-How many folks saw carl roaming around without his eye pro and didn't fix the deficiency?

-What was carls' squad / team leader doing that carl thought he didn't need to wear his gear?

- If carl got his eye poked out (sucks to be carl), how much crap would you guys be taking and how much special attention would you be getting?

Best thing to do is keep each other squared away so the NCOs and Officers don't have to dream shit up to get your attention. But that's just my opinion.
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CW3 Network Architect
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That only works when the peers have the authority to do something.
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CSM Richard StCyr
CSM Richard StCyr
>1 y
CW3 (Join to see) - Chief, every Soldier has the general authority to make on the spot corrections. We self policed for years and the shit birds either conformed or fell to the wayside. Not that I was ever a PVT, SPC or junior NCO before waking up to find A CSM chevron pinned to me. Damn how'd that thing get on there.... ; )
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CW3 Network Architect
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Yeah, but if Carl's a private, he can tell other privates to f*** off. I've seen it happen.
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CW3 Network Architect
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Honestly, it's a lot more effective if only Carl, his team leader, his squad leader, and his platoon sergeant are on the hook.

There's also a lack of context here: where are they being forced to wear eyepro all day, in the field or in garrison?
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MAJ Corporate Buyer
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Of course he can. He's the commander. The point he was trying to teach is that the actions of an individual don't simply impact that individual. Our actions have a blast radius. I'm guessing this is less about eye pro and more about doing what you're told. The individual will learn a lesson. His battle buddies will learn to watch out for each outer. The Team Leaders and Squad Leaders will learn how to do proper PCC/PCI's. The Pl's and PSG's will learn to spot check.

It's eye pro today. It could be something that costs a life tomorrow.
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CSM Richard StCyr
CSM Richard StCyr
>1 y
Yes, yes he can young Jedi. Punishing the miscreant is fine but there's something to be said for instilling an environment of peer enforcement.
Bet you folks will be more apt to correct your buddies when they aren't squared away, just think next time you all let a buddy slip you could be wearing brain buckets or OTV's, or doing chock block drills all in the name of instilling discipline and team work.

Ask yourself these questions ...
-How many folks saw carl roaming around without his eye pro and didn't fix the deficiency?

-What was carls' squad / team leader doing that carl thought he didn't need to wear his gear?

- If carl got his eye poked out (sucks to be carl), how much crap would you guys be taking and how much special attention would you be getting?

Best thing to do is keep each other squared away so the NCOs and Officers don't have to dream shit up to get your attention. But that's just my opinion.
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CSM Richard StCyr
CSM Richard StCyr
>1 y
Sir, responded in the wrong spot.......Happens when you get old and senile!
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MAJ Corporate Buyer
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CSM Richard StCyr - Happens to me all the time!
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LTC Special Forces Officer
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You have a problem with eye protection? Ask anybody who has suffered a sharp stick in the eye!!! I have buddies wish they had eye pro in Ranger School back in the day!!!
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CW3 Network Architect
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Mass punishment is wrong, no matter what the punishment. It sends the message that you can do what you're told, and suffer consequences anyway. That is a stupid message to send to subordinates.
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MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P
MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P
>1 y
CW3 (Join to see) - Respectfully disagree Chief. There were failures at all levels of leadership in that platoon/company. SOMEONE had to have seen this soldier out of compliance yet no one acted to correct it. They all failed at their task. Seems to me the CO sent an appropriate reminder of everyone's responsibility to enforce standards.

Now, that being said... Were the world turned upside down and I were a Unit Commander, I may have handled the situation differently depending on exact circumstance. Maybe he had a valid reason for not having the required PPE at that moment; maybe he's a dirt bag who likes to defy authority. We just don't have that level of fidelity in circumstance from the OP.
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Cpl Westin Sandberg
Cpl Westin Sandberg
>1 y
I would also respectfully disagree sir, I never did active duty Army, however; in the Marines there is no "me" "i" "you". There is no individual, the platoon is the platoon. It is "us" and "we".

Things that we choose to or choose not to do effect more then just ourselves, the squad is on patrol, Carl don't wear his eyepro, takes shrapnel to the face and eyes, now we have a liability on the mission. So is the mission scraped? Or do we have to push on? Remember no man left behind... now you need someone to carry/guide your blind injured platoon mate.

One team, one fight.
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CW3 Network Architect
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Except if you don't have the power to affect what someone else does, but you get punished for it anyway, how is that right? What we're talking about here is an entire company being forced to wear eyepro IN THE COMPANY AREA no matter what they're doing, not on the landnav course...

If I were all the way on the other side of the landnav course as Carl's peer, and I got in trouble because he didn't wear eyepro, I'd be pissed. Eyepro in the office is ridiculous.

Further, it sends a message to junior enlisted that they can do what they're told, when they're told, and get punished anyway if someone else over whom they have no power or authority screws up. Is that really the message we want to send??
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CSM Darieus ZaGara
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Not the best approach but certainly within a CO’s authority. He hurt no one and I am sure he got the point across. His chain of command failed the Soldier or Soldiers who caused this reaction. Remember safety is paramount and while it is a leadership responsibility,?there is also that peer component. It was harmless, thank you for your service.
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SGT Infantryman
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I did ask if it was necessary to invoke a discussion as to "should he."
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Sgt Ronald Harris
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What's the beef? Whatever the policy is at your station, that's the "law". WHATEVER PPE is required, it's required by everyone! When it comes to PPE, your CO can make the policy, and that's the way it is. I worked 28 years @ Argonne National Laboratory, as a Journeyman Lineman. We, employee's and contractors, were required to have ALL of our PPE anytime while on the property, and to wear said equipment anytime while on the job site. If the "safety police" should stop by and found someone without any item of his PPE on, he would be written up. If a contractor was written up 3 times, he was off the property forever! Now, that's the way it is on the "outside", and you people think you're picked on? Grow up!!
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SSG Shawn Mcfadden
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Yes, it is necessary. If that was the uniform for that event, as prescribed by the Commander, EVERY SOLDIER in the Company is supposed to wear said uniform. Period.
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