Posted on May 9, 2016
SGT Ronnie Warford
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I was informed today that the new standard for our unit was 250 or above and if you failed to achieve that standard, you have to take an APFT every month until you meet the standard. I was just trying to see if this is actually lawful. I have some concerned soldiers and they are meeting the ARMY standard but have not yet met the company standard.
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MAJ FAO - Europe
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Edited >1 y ago
I do believe a commander can have folks under his command do APFTs as often as he/she desires, as long as these aren't "for record" APFTs, as "for record" APFTs can only be given every four months, per AR 350-1.

Now, the wisdom of such a program....that's another question.
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CW2 Humint Technician
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Edited >1 y ago
MAJ (Join to see) SFC (Join to see) SFC Wade W.
*Note - kept this post, but MAJ Jager and SFC Long are bringing up some good points that's making me consult legal.

Gentlemen,

None of these pieces of advice are actually 100% correct (edit - this is my opinion, added after the fact). AR 350-1 specifically states that a commander can administer an APFT as often as he/she wishes, provided that he/she notifies the SM beforehand that the results are for record.

"Commanders may administer the APFT as often as they wish; however, they must specify beforehand when the results are for record."

*wrong quote on the four months portion
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CW2 Humint Technician
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CW2 (Join to see) - Ma'am, understood now.
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CW2 Humint Technician
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Proponent of AR 350-1 is looking into it, but they admit they need to fix the wording of the regulation when you're talking about the examples I listed. They are getting back to me. Also they are saying there might be an issue with units forcing people to take record APFTs as entrance requirements before you even attend the school...BUT, they have to get more clarification and might try to fix it. I'm waiting to hear back more
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MAJ FAO - Europe
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CW2 (Join to see) - Good work, 1SG, and thanks for the update!
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SFC Management Assistant
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CW2 (Join to see) - Yes, thank you for putting the time into this. I am a National Guardsman who works for the FAA in Airspace Operations and Procedures. We generate policies, procedures, and letters of agreement that have to be clear and direct. When I read the 350-1, I took that view of the reading. I did not take into account what units "always do" or the affects of the wording elsewhere, but what was presented there.

I should have remembered that the army often falls short of the concise mark in regulations. But I am glad to have this being looked into.
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SFC Management Assistant
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Ar350-1.

Long and short says yes, however, they cannot be for record. A record apft should have a minimum of 4 months in between. With a few exceptions.

Commander can give a diagnostic apft as much as he wants.
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MSG Military Police
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I agree and the only exception to the 4 month rule, I know of is if the Soldier requires make-up testing or re-testing due to an APFT BOLO.
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SFC Management Assistant
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Although I think they can have higher standards for the air unit, however, soldiers cannot be penalized for not making those standards. I recommend reading into the Reg I do not have it handy at this time.
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SFC Management Assistant
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SFC (Join to see) - Their not the air. Was using voice to text while walking my dog.
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SFC Combat Engineer
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Sounds like this unit is trying to get an APFT streamer for their guidon. As long as soldiers aren't being flagged for not meeting the UNIT standard there is no issue here.
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Can a commander authorize a PRT standard to the unit?
SFC Randy Purham
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I say see what "Army WTF moments" have to say about it lol. But I concur with everyone else's comments. AR 350-1 is the guidance. IG could be a probable step as well.
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SGT Ronnie Warford
SGT Ronnie Warford
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Haha I don't think I'm petty enough to put my leadership on blast like that lol
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SFC Randy Purham
SFC Randy Purham
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Good deal. Smart move.
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SGM Steve Wettstein
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They can have goals but they cannot make it a requirement (APFT Score).
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SFC John Hill
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Yes, IAW AR 350-1 Training-Army Training and Leader Development; Appendix G–9. Physical readiness training Para d (2) Commanders may establish unit APFT and PRT mission related goals which exceed Army minimum standards. Personnel who meet Army minimum standards, but fail to meet unit goals, may not be punished or disciplined. However, they may be required to participate in special conditioning programs which focus on overcoming a weakness.
This additional training cannot be punitive in nature, meaning it must be conducted during the normal duty day. APFT failures can be ordered to attend “remedial training” after normal duty hours.
Diagnostic APFT, Commanders can administer as often as they like, “for the record” APFT must be announced beforehand.
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SPC Kenneth Koerperich
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As much as they want. In my day 9th Regt standard was 270 - 280, which was to get you into RIP easily if you drew the school. It also kept us in shape, since everything we did was "shoe-leather express" w/ all but the kitchen sink on our backs. In garrision we took APFT weekly. Remedial was @ 1500 daily including Sats if you failed, & you did it until you could pull 270 - 280

Good thing was, we was deployed so much that it became a mout point as we hardly ever tested after the second month in the unit. Hungry Lizard, 9th Regt Indoc, ABCA, Panama Rotation, Hungry Lizard, Panama Rotation, Op Just Cause, Desert Training @ Irwin, Post Support, JRTC, Hungry Lizard, OP4 for Sinai Units, Government Wpn Testing, Mout Site Testing, Hungry Lizard, then off to Korea. Barely 6 months total in 2 years on the Planet. So APFT was useless as we all were 'ROCK HARD" from the field.

So Enjoy your Standards....
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LTC Psychological Operations Officer
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Lightfighter! I was at Ord from 89-92. Really liked the place, except for all the poison oak there and at Hunter-Liggett. I was super allergic to that stuff, and came down with rashes all over every time we went to the field. :)
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SGT Kyle Johnson
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Saw this go sideways on a commander once, since we were all shift workers, it was the NCOs who gave PT for their teams. We had a company standard to meet, above the minimums. Which we all did, less a couple of problem children. Then out of the blue, no matter what time you worked the CO wanted everyone at company PT. We had to schedule a minimal manning for mission and the PT scores fell like a rock. NCOs got blamed, and the CO would not listen that we had it under control before, and motivated our people that in the middle of their time off no formation or PT. Moral hit an all time low... Lucky for us the commander was gone pretty quickly afterward. New WISE commander went back to the old ways. First big company party after a commander left instead of before...
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SGT(P) Squad Leader
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I was in a unit where the "standard" was 75% of the 18-21 year age group in all events and 6 pull ups, this was a National Guard unit. We were considered a scout unit, although it had Infantry and Cav Scouts working side by side within the unit. We took an APFT every month, regardless if you passed or failed unit standard. As long as the commander gives the go ahead and as long as his/her upper echelon want it to continue, it's lawful. The leadership can only enforce the APFT score for the "record" tests.
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SFC Combat Engineer
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I guess this all depends on WHAT type of unit this is. My unit does an APFT every single month for our drill sergeant candidates. Our standard is only 70 points in each event. Sometimes 75 depending on the CSM's directives. Without it, the candidates can't go to drill sergeant school. We consider these APFT's diagnostic. We don't flag our people if they only get 60 points in each event. They simply don't go to school. If they continue to not meet our standard they go to another unit or are placed in the IRR. Even if they get 70's in each event they still take an APFT every single month until the report to drill sergeant school.
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